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A Request for Information - Helmets
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What has been your experience with respect to helmet usage?
I have had an experience where I believe that wearing a helmet saved me from suffering serious (or decreased severity of) injury
74%
 74%  [ 40 ]
I have had an experience where I believe that wearing a helmet caused me to suffer serious (or increased severity of) injury
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
I have had both experiences where helmet usage reduced the severity and where helmet usage increased the severity of injury
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
I have fallen or been in accidents while wearing a helmet, but have never felt that the helmet either reduced or increased the severity of injury
24%
 24%  [ 13 ]
Total Votes : 54

Author Thread This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics. This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3646
Location: Brooklyn, NY

12/21/06 5:29 PM

A Request for Information - Helmets

Just thought I'd take a poll here. No claims of any scientific conclusions or validity. Just idle curiousity. And it's been a while since anyone had used the polling feature . . .


Edit - Unstickied as of 1/10/07


Last edited by PLee on 1/10/07 1:06 AM; edited 3 times in total

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jimbo
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3208
Location: SW Virginia

12/21/06 5:51 PM

Good Poll

Thanks

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3299
Location: Springfield

12/21/06 6:11 PM

But how can you know whether?

You can only believe or relay other's opinion about severity, the anti-helmet lobby will profess.

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8320
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

12/21/06 6:16 PM

I have fallen and cracked 3 helmets in 15 years of riding

One of which had me bounce off a railroad track. I walked away with a crushed and shattered helmet. I have no doubt a helmet kept me from being very badly hurt.

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RCoapman
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 4692
Location: Probably on a boat on Puget Sound

12/21/06 6:19 PM

Parkin, make this a sticky?

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jimbo
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3208
Location: SW Virginia

12/21/06 6:29 PM

D-O...

I'm alive because I landed on my head, going over the handlebars, downhill at 35 mph.

Helmet crushed on top. Fractured skull and a couple of things broken internally.

However, I'm still alive, although quite wary of bicycle riding now.

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TTCC
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 3404
Location: Eating Dead Deer That Rednecks Kill For Me

12/21/06 6:29 PM

Another Option

What about: "I have never had an experience which has led me to believe that wearing a helmet has either increased or decreased the severity of any injury"?

--ttcc

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TTCC
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 3404
Location: Eating Dead Deer That Rednecks Kill For Me

12/21/06 6:31 PM

Oh, and...

there is no "anti-helmet lobby". There are just people who aren't easily bullshitted by fancy-sounding malarky. If there is any "lobby", it is a pro-helmet one, funded by helmet companies (gee, what a surprise!) and joined by a variety of hand-wringers with a variety of agendas.

--ttcc

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 2994
Location: Midland, MI

12/21/06 6:46 PM

Dented and cracked

Had a helment where, after a crash, the foam was both dented and cracked and the shell was scraped up. I experienced no head injury of any kind. If you assume that denting the foam reduced the intensity of the impact, then that was a good thing. It is impossible to tell whether I would have been injured without the helmet, but it's hard to believe that I would not have at least lost a bunch of skin.

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3646
Location: Brooklyn, NY

12/21/06 6:56 PM

I don't think so . . .


quote:
What about: "I have never had an experience which has led me to believe that wearing a helmet has either increased or decreased the severity of any injury"?

That would cast too wide a net. It would include everyone who has never fallen or had an accident. And I haven't got the energy right now to try to rephrase it to get at what I think your point is without being overly broad. Any suggestions?

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TTCC
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 3404
Location: Eating Dead Deer That Rednecks Kill For Me

12/21/06 7:01 PM

"It would include everyone who has never fallen or had an accident."

But isn't that part of the relevant population if the purpose of the poll is to get a sense for people's perception of the relative costs and benefits of helmet wearing? And anyway, what person who has ever ridden a bike hasn't fallen or had an accident? The way the poll is structured, it is completely rigged to give you the answer you want: "my helmet saved my life".

How about this: "I have fallen and/or had an accident on the bike, and none of these events has led me to believe that wearing a helmet has either increased or decreased the severity of any injury"?

--ttcc

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allan anderson
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 100
Location: ottawa - canada

12/21/06 7:09 PM

multiple fractures of the helmet

Helmet was in such sad shape that the strap anchor points were no longer doing their job -- my head was woozy afterwards with slight nausea.

So was my head protected or did the helmet make it worse? I say protected, it being there lessened the effects of the crash. This happened on one of Paul's rides BTW - no fault to Paul or anyone: One of those freaky things where the fellow next to me in the paceline had hit a hole in the road - causing his bottle to pop out and inexplicably wedge in his back wheel. This caused a fishtail that took us both out.

Cheers!
Allan

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3646
Location: Brooklyn, NY

12/21/06 7:12 PM

Close

I think the poll is as balanced as possible. I was purposefully trying to avoid any semblance of rigging.


quote:
if the purpose of the poll is to get a sense for people's perception of the relative costs and benefits of helmet wearing
That's not my purpose. I'm looking for people's experiences with helmet use in accidents, and trying to come up with mutually exclusive responses.

I'll take another crack at it.

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RCoapman
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 4692
Location: Probably on a boat on Puget Sound

12/21/06 7:16 PM

what I don't get are scientists who disavow the simplest concepts in physics. If you pad an impact, the force of the impact is lessened. Period. Mike says that there is no evidence that helmets prevent serious injury. Let's say it takes an impact of 300 units to fracture your skull. If you are not wearing your helmet and impact the pavement on the front of your helmet at a force of 330 units you will have a fractured skull. If you are wearing a helmet, however, and the helmet lessens the force of that impact by 45 units due to its crushing, the effective force on your noggin is 285 units and so your skull is intact. It might hurt like hell but at least it isn't broken.

Yes, I realize this is an incredibly simplified example but it's also a valid point. There is a threshold at which a head injury becomes serious or deadly. Logically, a helmet can increase that threshold by placing a crumple zone between your head and the hard thing.

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TTCC
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 3404
Location: Eating Dead Deer That Rednecks Kill For Me

12/21/06 7:17 PM

Polling

"I'm looking for people's experiences with helmet use in accidents, and trying to come up with mutually exclusive responses."

The fact that I--who have crashed several times while wearing a helmet--cannot truthfully select any of the existing three choices indicates that your poll is not constructed correctly to serve your purpose. You need to include a choice to be selected by people who have crashed while wearing a helmet and believe that it made no difference one way or the other.

--ttcc

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RCoapman
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 4692
Location: Probably on a boat on Puget Sound

12/21/06 7:19 PM

you mean like choice #4?


quote:
I have fallen or been in accidents while wearing a helmet, but have never felt that the helmet either reduced or increased the severity of injury

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3646
Location: Brooklyn, NY

12/21/06 7:21 PM

You got it

What you had suggested didn't quite get us there. Take a look at what I added. (I did say I was going to take another crack at it.) Go and click away!

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TTCC
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 3404
Location: Eating Dead Deer That Rednecks Kill For Me

12/21/06 7:24 PM

Cool

I just voted.

--ttcc

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8320
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

12/21/06 7:32 PM

Number 4

Just means you have not smacked your head on the ground really hard during a wreck.

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JayPee
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 2916
Location: Excited Mets Fan

12/21/06 7:42 PM

Still Can't Vote

I've fallen and cracked a helmet - no injury. I simply don't know if it mattered.

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

12/21/06 8:24 PM

#4

I voted #4.

Sandiway

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3646
Location: Brooklyn, NY

12/21/06 8:51 PM

JayPee

I think that counts as a #4

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JayPee
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 2916
Location: Excited Mets Fan

12/21/06 9:06 PM

I Dunno

Honestly your #4 is a positive statement of feelings - my remark is of ambivalence.

Perhaps its an inconsequential sublety - or maybe Mike has gotten to me . . .

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TTCC
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 3404
Location: Eating Dead Deer That Rednecks Kill For Me

12/21/06 9:14 PM

Yeh

That means you are susceptible to rational thinking.

--ttcc

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d_swiger
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 584
Location: San Jose California

12/21/06 10:10 PM

I crashed

It cracked.
I walked away with just a shiner
Could be logic, could be luck.

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