9/18/23 9:05 AM

It was interesting, we've certainly seen instances in the past where GC contender's team member took a leader's jersey but eventually lost it to the contender because the first rider simply couldn't maintain that position. I think up until the ITT JV was justified in playing all their cards as SK is not known as a TTer and has said he hates them. It was reasonable to think he could possibly lose a lot of time there. While he did not win that TT he put in an excellent effort and only lost about 90s IIRC. He proved he could rise to the occasion.

At that point, he should have been the leader of the team with Jonas and Primoz in support roles. SK's climbing ability was in zero doubt and the Vuelta parcourse this year was almost nothing but vertical bits.

But, unlike your typical domestique, Jonas and Primoz had the ability to stay with the leader until the end on every stage so going for the full sweep of the podium was always a valid tactical move and having 2 other riders in 2nd and 3rd on GC gave Jumbo a safety net on the overall win that was nearly unprecedented.

They had it locked up. Allowing that breach of protocol, if the rumors of the DS saying they could each race their own race, was fairly short-sighted in my untrained and unprofessional view. It also soured everything that came after their change of tactics...it's hard to think that was anything but a PR move at this point and that if PR and maybe JV had their way they would have continued to attack their teammate.

This really highlights the fact that cycling is a unique and very complicated sport. It's a team effort but only one person gets any one bit of glory. It's a perfect set up for internal drama.

9/18/23 3:35 PM

I’m afraid Team Ethics, if there is such a thing, is above my pay grade. As I understand it, a team’s job is to try their best to win and not cheat. I think team members should work within the team strategy and not undercut it for personal ambition. I think the team in this case could defensibly choose to support Sepp, or not. I don’t think the team or riders have an obligation to reward an excellent domestique who is arguably not there strongest rider, though they could choose to do so.

9/20/23 9:33 AM

For reference, see Stephen Roche vs. Roberto Visintini, 1987 Giro d'Italia.

9/20/23 9:43 AM

But had Roche been dragged to multiple wins big by Visintini? And did 2 of his team mates attack him? Seems more than 2x rivalry to me with JV.

I think the TT inteam pissing contests that ensued for years after Lemond interesting reading. Including for the 87 Giro. ;)

9/20/23 9:57 AM

Visintini was a darling of the Tifosi, and more than half of Roche's team attacked him. Epic.

9/20/23 10:03 AM

Was it more they attacked him back when he went rogue? Musta been some really good team moral going on, LOL. That was all before my interest in road cycling. I was only MTBer back then. So what I gleam here will be from comments and googling..

9/20/23 10:31 AM

How about Le Blaireau and LeMond in Le Tour ‘86?

9/22/23 8:51 AM

Roche was stronger than Visintini, but Visinini was the designated leader. IIRC Visintini cracked on a mountain stage (or a TT?) and Roche didn't wait for him. If Roche hadn't gone, the team would have been toast but instead Roche won the Giro.

Compared to LeMond and Hinault, I would say the divisions were sharper with the team really split. Visintini had the support of about 2/3 of the team but Roche was strong enough to fight them off. With LeMond/Hinault at least other team members weren't attacking LeMond.

9/29/23 5:10 AM

Getting back to the Vuelta...

The most telling thing was the comments from the riders, particularly from Kuss. They had agreed what about they were going to do on a day-by-day basis. When Kuss was dropped, he radioed that and told Roglic and Vingegaard to keep going. He was all smiles at the finish. While I wonder how PR and JV felt about having to support Kuss instead of going for the win, it's clear that Kuss was fine with having the chips fall where they may - "no gifts". Fans and the cycling press may have been outraged, but Kuss wasn't.

Sure, it was a PR nightmare for the team, but the "controversy" was apparently all outside, not with the riders. I don't think it taints anything, it's just a lesson learned.

Now the question is whether Roglic will leave. His chances of winning the Tour are better with JV than anywhere else, so it may just come down to them making him the designated leader for the '24 race, with Kuss and/or Vingegaard as support and option #2. I agree that it would be great to have all of the major contenders there next year. The type of course ASO creates will have a major impact on who's got the upper hand.

9/29/23 1:41 PM

In what universe is Rog going to be the designated J-V TdF leader and Vingo support or #2?