6/21/23 12:54 PM

I’ve come to realize that at my age and present body condition, the most important factor in a bike is that it be comfortable. I don’t mean a comfort bike or beach cruiser, but a bike where my back doesn’t stiffen up or my butt get sore.

Those happen now on my Domane RSL road bike and my Checkpoint gravel bike. After an hour or so, I am lifting my butt off the seat and waiting for the ride to end. On my Breadwinner, a steel gravel bike with similar geometry and equipment to the Checkpoint, after the same time I am totally comfortable and ready to up my effort. I have learned that my legs are still pretty good if the rest of me is comfortable, which I did not realize.

Why exactly the Breadwinner is more comfortable I am not sure (I would guess the steel frame and Berthoud saddle are significant, but don’t really know; the BW tires are 42 vs. 40 on the Checkpoint, and maybe somewhat more supple), but my thought here is that it’s easy to confuse diffuse discomfort with being out of shape leg-wise.

Not sure I see a reason to ride the other bikes (both of which were comfortable a couple years ago).

6/21/23 1:31 PM

Is this perhaps a case of judging different saddles versus judging different bikes?

Not apples-to-apples, but I use suspension seatposts on both of my hard-tail off-road bikes.

6/21/23 2:38 PM

Maybe, like I said I dunno the cause. Historically I have never had problems with saddles, and I rode these comfortably for a couple years, though OTOH I’ve never met a Berthoud product I didn’t love. :). The difference seems bigger to me than likely explained by a saddle, but like I said, I dunno. My main point is not to judge the bikes, just the importance of being comfortable.

As to suspension devices, FWIW the Domane has the Trek front and rear suspension gizmos, rear set soft, don’t solve the issue. Also has excellent 32 RH Stampede Pass tires.

6/21/23 3:43 PM

saddle +90% imo.

Running 32-5mm tires @ 70/80 psi max depending n your weight helpful the the butt I guess.

I've been riding a Custom Steel Tomii for a bunch of rides of late. On early Zipp 404s with GK Slick 35mm and latex tubes. I though the tall carbon rim would be stiff and limit comfort. But the tire size and PSi make me not notice stiff ride traits As I do with them with 25 Conti GP4 I've always run on them.

Today a quick 25 miler on my RSL/SLR with 30mm Pirelli. So I can appreciate the Tire/Psi part of this equation. the RSL and 30mm ride about 80% as nice as the GK Slicks.

It might be mostly the PSi, 65-70 GKs, 75-80 30mm Pirelli.

GK Slick on early narrow 404s inflate to 33.7ish, the 30mm are on 17C rims are 29.5mm FWIW

6/22/23 9:28 AM

Since I've gotten the Pursuit I've really come to understand how much saddle choice and the very specific position of it makes to my comfort esp in the lower back.

I've been through several saddles and setups and am still dialing in but I'm very close. Even very fine adjustments to tilt can make or break a ride. It also impacts how much weight I end up resting on my bars and how my hands feel after a couple hours. The only suggestion I can make is to reproduce the saddle position and tilt as closely as possible with a very similarly shaped saddle and see what that does.

6/23/23 5:45 AM

I would suggest swapping everything you can between the bikes and see if they make a difference. The saddle swap should be a no-brainer, but a wheel (or at least tire) swap should be pretty straightforward. Obviously a careful check of all measurements is required as well. It's the only way to isolate the frame from everything else.

6/23/23 9:30 AM

The other thing that I find helps is a long Syntace P6 HiFlex post. Especially on a compact bike with lots of post showing for more flex.

I have a few CG-R S-Works Mclaren posts that give a subtle rocking movement of saddle that have some effectiveness as well.

What duration of saddle time are we talking?? I used to ask miles of ride. But for me it is time not miles anymore.

When I think of 4:15 Century when I was mid 40s compared to a 50 miler best of 17 avg @ 66 yrs old now... well I try not to think about it.

6/24/23 12:20 PM

You guys convinced me, along with a look at the saddles, to try a Berthoud saddle on the Domane RSL. The leather Berthoud and the Bontrager carbon plank on the RSL are kind of polar opposites, so it’s worth a shot. The RSL already has the widest tires that can fit.
I’m not going to literally swap the saddle, just order a new Berthoud. I’d have to take the saddle off the seat post then reinstall it, which isn’t that burdensome, but I’d like to do several rides on the RSL, some a to b comparisons of the bikes, and I can alway use another Berthoud.
Thanks for the input.

Last edited by dan emery on 6/24/23 2:03 PM; edited 1 time in total

6/24/23 1:30 PM

i am trying a leather selle, the weight of it is scarey..

I got it for 100.00 off, you'd think for full price of 189.00 they burnish the cutout edges...

It disappears quickly, need a long ride on it...




Saddle comfort comes down to [for me] how hard I am riding. A 25 miler with mostly FTP, I am offsetting weight on it a lot. 3-4 hour loafer on the Strong with 36mm tubulars, I got the Selle to try.

7/1/23 11:00 AM

Put the new Berthoud saddle on the Domane RSL and on an initial shakedown ride it feels significantly more comfortable. I’ll report again after some longer rides which should dispel any placebo effect. Thanks again for the input.

7/1/23 4:19 PM

Dan's new is both old and new again.. ;)

Some Brooks leather tape and tan walls maybe? ;)




I do love these, not because of the ISO doohickeys, the long/low is what does it for me. They roll all day nice! I will say it's a bike that spacers under the stem make the front ISO more compliant than slammed. Bit of lever above the bearing I assume...

My 60CM RSL/SLR Rim brake Trek is my fav bike. It fits perfectly, and the race Shop Domanes have a geometry like no other. In our sizes a 72.8 HTA, 51mm trail, and the long/low thing going for it.

So unlike the endurance Domane I can get the bars low enough. The 58 Endurance I had in 2014 was just too short, although the stack was good stem slammed. I tried long stem, but the endurance slack HTA with 60+ trail felt wonky rolling to me.

I remember Dan and I emailing about the sizes of these early on. I think I recall him saying he though the 58 be right for me. I said the 60. Then I got that Radio Shack Leopard Classics and the long and low made the seller think it was a 60, it's a 62. I'd sooner ride that than the 58, and I did. The low of the long/low even on the 62 was low enough. I did the shortest reach bars and a 90mm stem. A compromise, but was #1 for near 5 years. When I got the 60, it was clear it was the bullseye. ;)

Anyway, down the road I will always recall these as one of my best rides. I would have loved to ride an Infintio Bianchi, it just never worked out. The one I test rode was sublime even with the 120PSi I asked for for the test ride to feel the worst it had to offer. it's worst was fookin really good. ;)

Last edited by Sparky on 7/1/23 4:39 PM; edited 2 times in total

7/1/23 4:31 PM

BTW, new leather saddles usually only get more and more comfortable.

I did a few rides on the leather Selle Anatomica above, with the valley cut/missing outta the middle. So far so good on that one.

7/16/23 4:18 PM

After a few rides on the RSL with the new Berthoud saddle, I’m back to loving the bike. Nice to be able to appreciate the great tires again. Could be placebo effect or just me slowly rounding into shape, but I ain’t changing the saddle back!