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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3238
Location: Midland, MI4/21/23 9:21 AM |
quote:
It seems to me that P-R would be the perfect application for tubeless tubular. Or do they have more rolling resistance than tubeless clinchers?
As implemented to date, the casing treatment required to make a tubeless tubular air tight means that they are not the supple tires that are the goal of tubulars.
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19099
Location: PDX4/21/23 10:59 AM |
This is for sure. Who's goal be my question. ;) I like what I have going on, real question is what I have convinced myself the motivation/reasons really.
The tubeless tubulars I have are not dreamy supple. But is it the sprayed in coating to make air tight, of my choices of cobble duty casings, or both?
I also have 28mm Tufo Carbon lacking the robust cobble casings. They in fact are not super supple. But would say they feel as nice as my 23mm Vit Tubulars rolling.. But then again at my weight the 23mm tubulars need +10/15 [fr/rear] PSI. I run all my tires in the 25-30mm range @ 75/80 these days.
@ 210 lb, I would neither run 23s, nor the 23 tube @ that low PSI.
When I get 32-35.. seems I settle 5-10 PSI lower comfortably.
But @ 210, I am sure not going to run paper light tires. I want some thickness of tread in the road contact area where sticky things get thru. psssss.
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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2816
Location: hillbilly heaven4/21/23 1:12 PM |
I cant see how a tubeless tubular would be any less supple than a tubeless clincher but would not have the bead problems the clincher would have.
Maybe the tire sponsors for many teams dont have a tubeless tubular.
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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6897
Location: Maine4/21/23 2:02 PM |
How Ted King chooses tires
Not really directly related to this discussion, not talking about Paris-Roubaix (although I believe he has ridden it) and based on Rene Herse tires, though he talks in general principles:
https://www.renehersecycles.com/ted-kings-tips-on-choosing-tires/
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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3238
Location: Midland, MI4/23/23 8:58 AM |
quote:
It seems to me that P-R would be the perfect application for tubeless tubular. Or do they have more rolling resistance than tubelless clinchers?
In every application I am aware of, the added coating and structure of the casing in tubeless tubulars has resulted in high rolling resistance.
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19099
Location: PDX4/23/23 12:13 PM |
Seems a static coating VS fluid sealant, even as it drys have to have more stiffening effect...
From racing stand point, lowest rolling resistance gotta come first I'd assume.
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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5102
Location: Nashua, NH4/23/23 2:11 PM |
"Tubeless tubular" is really a misnomer, basically just marketing speak. The difference between that and a regular tubular is that the "tube" is bonded to the casing. What's the big deal?
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19099
Location: PDX4/23/23 2:27 PM |
Well, I don't know it to be a big deal or not. Have you ever plugged or used sealant in a tubular with a tube not permanently affixed to the casing. If it does work, the next time it needs to be inflated to ride [if it even sealed on the road], its been a fail every time for me.
I 'tire' of tossing flatted tubulars. Fearing the ride home after putting the spare on. Being afraid of rolling spare once wetting with glue to mount it.
And still having to re-glue properly once I got home as well...
I guess running the cobble casing tires I mostly am not getting the super supple feel, but do get turning feel of such a round tire.. I only get 1/2 that equation.
FWIW, the 30mm G-Zeros are 355-60 grams. And on a nice light carbon rim weighing less than alloy counterpart some of that rotational weight is negated. In my mind anyway... But they have the feel of spinning up fast, my point.
I don't put sealant in from start. I carry with me 2oz bottle. Why start with it in there drying out when the new tire is arguable the most flat resistant it will be in it's life/use.
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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5102
Location: Nashua, NH4/24/23 5:49 PM |
I used sealant in tubulars for more than a decade and it worked extremely well, nearly eliminating flats. I have never had a problem inflating a tubular with sealant in it. Never.
I put sealant in all of my tires from the beginning so I don't have to deal with the hassle and potential crash risk of a flat tire, and having to install sealant and pump it up out on the road.
I
prefer
prevention
to reaction, but that's your call.
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19099
Location: PDX4/24/23 7:22 PM |
What sealant did you prefer? Did you rejuvenate with more juice before re-tiring?
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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5102
Location: Nashua, NH4/25/23 1:57 PM |
I've been using Stan's regular sealant and it's always worked well. It needs to be renewed periodically, but for me that's been a couple of times per year at most.
The only other sealant I've tried was the original Caffelatex, which was worthless. I could have gotten the same result by putting milk in my tires and pretending it was sealant. Their reformulated stuff is apparently better, but I have no reason to switch.
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