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TdF [spoilers]
 

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RCoapman
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 5137
Location: Back in the snowy homeland

7/24/22 5:26 AM

TdF [spoilers]

Today is the final day, no changes to GC expected, of course. Here are my thoughts, not that anyone asked. Nothing here is revelatory or even overly insightful....

This tour really shows how important your team is. When Pogacer was isolated on Galibier, Jumbo capitalized and beat him because they had 2 GC contenders at that time that could attack. I fully agreed with C. VdV when asked about eventual outcome that Tadej and Jonas were so closely matched in terms of ability that something unlucky would have to happen for Vingegaard to lose his advantage vs Pogacar being able to take it back by force. Two really incredible riders and I really can't say if either is stronger than the other. I think Pogacar was really feeling this tour and the overall lack of support by the end.

I imagine Team UAE will let lot of riders go at the end of the season, overall the team clearly wasn't up to task and they lost yellow as a result. McNulty, however, was amazing in the Pyrenees as you all know. Those efforts on the last two mountain days...my legs hurt just watching.

Vingegaard and Pogacar both seem to be class acts. Rivals on the bike but real sportsmen as well. Pogacar smiled and congratulated his opponent when he took yellow, Vingegaard waited after Tadej's small crash descending toward the start of Hautacam...that was great to see. No trash talk, no taking advantage, real class and professionalism like it should be.

There aren't enough superlatives for Wout van Aert. Dude is insane. The green jersey on a stage the finishes on Hautacam breaks away at km0 and finishes third after helping his team leader pace up that monster? Not to mention all the other phenomenal things he did over the last 3 weeks...if he had any GC aspirations I can't imagine that he'll stay on Jumbo for next season. He needs a team dedicated to him if that's his goal. He really just needs to get some better climbing legs, and maybe learn how to conserve energy, and to my entirely untrained eyes it looks like he could have a serious chance for podium in Paris. I assume he's going to go for the 50 points today to break the record.

Sucks for Froome, but even though he did well on some stages it seems like he's likely done in the Grand Tours as a contender. Amazing career and amazing recovery from that crash but that combined with age....we all know that story.

Someone said it in the other thread that CVdV was pretty good but Horner was a bit annoying, I tend to agree. Though compared to the useless talking head that joined them, I'd much rather listen to Horner who at least was a real rider. I could also do without that Steve guy on the USA coverage that did the little color segments from the course.

I quickly lost track of how many times Bobke had to correct Phil, even multiple times for the same person, on riders' names and histories. I'm sure commentating a dynamic race like this is not easy and requires a lot of attention and knowledge but he seems to have lost quite a bit of his sharpness. Not surprising, the man's been doing this for 50 years. Just a bit sad because at some point he's going to retire and we won't have the voice of the Tour anymore.

It was quite fun, though a huge time-suck, watching the stage replays. I lost time with a trip out to the west coast for 6 days so catching up was a bit much, but I did miss keeping up with this race. Cancelling my peacock subscription later today, though. ;)

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/24/22 8:45 AM

" I think Pogacar was really feeling this tour"

Seemed like the out of the gate aggressive strategy turned out not to be a good one.


But really how impressive was Team JVis? Just Wow!

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

7/24/22 9:30 AM

I think this was the best Tour we've seen in years. First time winners, poignant moments galore, plenty of surprises and many next-level performances. Top it off with a great rivalry between two super classy riders to watch for years to come. How much more could you ask.

Wout van Aert is the closest thing we've seen to Eddy Merckx in decades. If nothing else, he has proven that the age of the all-round rider isn't dead after all. It was interesting that Bridie O'Donnell referred to him today as "the men's version of Marianne Vos". ;-)

Maybe Wout is secretly Eddy's love child? Hmmm...

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/24/22 11:40 AM

Wout surely a stand out +2

I never heard of Vingo, stand out ++ and great surprise. #new_sheriff etc

Pitcock, +2

Sepp Kuss, trying to decide if he was watching his energies for support full stages. And maybe could fly with the likes Pog and Primos if they let him..

Froome showed up too. I was bucking for his near stage win after so long from nearly crippling himself @dauphine. Never really a Froome fan, but Temerity showing thru, good on him. #salary-motivation?

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RCoapman
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 5137
Location: Back in the snowy homeland

7/25/22 7:01 AM

One additional note on Peacock...I paid for the no ads version and only watched replays until yesterday. The final stage was the only one I watched live. Obviously impossible to maintain coverage when the feed is cut off but instead of just showing the ads the showed a waiting screen. Not the most engaging thing but way better than stupid ads. So that's a point in their favor.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3234
Location: Midland, MI

7/25/22 9:11 AM

Great summary, and matches my observations. The French always say you can't have a JOUR SANS (day without) and Tadej had one. Question is whether that was a result of all the efforts he made on other days or whether he just had an off day. Bad luck for his team with both crashes and covid that took a lot of power away as rider after rider was eliminated. The previous two years it seemed like he didn't need a team, but maybe that was due to weaker competition. This year there was obviously no room for wasted efforts or bad tactical decisions. It was fought out on the climbs and that's the way it should be. Jonas was obviously the stronger rider.

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RCoapman
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 5137
Location: Back in the snowy homeland

7/25/22 5:27 PM

Not sure I'd agree that Jonas was the stronger rider, per se. I think they were pretty well matched in regards to individual ability. I honestly think this came down to the teams. JV was a bloody powerhouse in another league from all the other teams.

My gut says Pogacar never fully recovered from the first day on Galibier. The very strong tactics of JV wore him out that day when he was isolated and he couldn't respond at the end. Even with Roglic gone, JV was able to do the work and still maintain dominance/control and never gave Pogacar a real chance to take advantage. His only weapon in the end was raw power and he simply didn't have enough.

I looked up his W/kg today....somewhere around 6.5-6.7 at 145lb and 23yo...insane. We definitely haven't heard the last from Tadej.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

7/26/22 5:35 AM

With the exception of that one day on the Galibier where Jumbo Visma used multiple riders to attack Pogacar, I really wonder how much difference the teams made. Once Roglic was no longer a threat, that tactic wasn't possible.

Obviously, a strong team is a huge asset on the flats and descents where speeds are high and drafting is key to saving energy. But on a steep climb, a wheel is a wheel and you can either hold the pace or you can't. as we saw from Thomas. The strongest team in the world can't drag a rider up a mountain and conversely, a strong rider can follow the pace of an opponent's team, then attack and win, as The Pog has shown repeatedly.

This was really a battle between the two best Grand Tour riders in the world, mano-a-mano. Before the race, Vingegaard reportedly said he was stronger than last year and that was the difference. I'm also really impressed with the respect they have for each other and the sportsmanship they displayed. I can't think of two better ambassadors for the sport and hopefully we'll be able to watch them for many years to come.

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RCoapman
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 5137
Location: Back in the snowy homeland

7/26/22 6:17 AM

I wonder how much the mental game came into this. Vingegaard had confidence in his team and, despite his public comments, I have to wonder how much doubt that day on Galibier put into Pogacar's mind. From my own experience even the tiniest bit of doubt will cost me noticeable watts. Despite his amazing record and ability, if he lost confidence in his team that could have been impacting his overall ability to dig deep into the suitcase of courage. The mental game is at least as important as the physical.

110% agreed on the sportsmanship. No matter what, two class acts.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

7/26/22 7:04 AM

I don't know if it was so much a loss of confidence in his team as in himself. Last year, he spent a lot of time isolated from his team and still won convincingly. This year, Vingegaard was stronger than last and that seemed to rattle Pogacar; it was pretty clear that he knew he had real competition on his hands and could possibly be beaten. A chink in the armor was all that was necessary to turn the tide.

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RCoapman
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 5137
Location: Back in the snowy homeland

7/26/22 8:26 AM

Thanks for the perspective...I don't have full context as I haven't paid attention in a few years.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/26/22 9:04 AM


quote:
been impacting his overall ability to dig deep into the suitcase of courage.


You seem maybe infected, with the Liggett virus..


As young as Pog is, the team concept may be a learning curve for him? Being a babe in arms and all...

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RCoapman
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 5137
Location: Back in the snowy homeland

7/26/22 10:23 AM

My bike is almost as old as he is.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

7/26/22 3:33 PM

Sportsmanship

My favorite moment was when Vingo waited for Pog on the descent, and they touched hands and got back to racing. I don’t think he needed to do that, where Pog made a mistake. But it was great.

I didn’t see the Galibier stqge, but overall I thought Vingo was just a bit stronger. He had a better team, and Pog was a bit aggressive early, but in the end I think Vingo was just a bit stronger. I may be wrong, obviously. Vingo nearly winning the tt (at ~127 lbs) kind of put a stamp on it for me.

Hopefully they will go back and forth for a long time. But who knows. I thought Pog would dominate for a long time. Before that I thought the same of Egon Bernal. Who knows who may come along.

I thought multiple Americans rode great.

Wout is a freaking animal.

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