4/18/22 3:34 PM

OK. My 1x9 ex-rando (700c) setup is a 42 in front with an 11-36 in back. It works well, and I have learned a few things.

Also, I know that if I can't make it up something with a 42/36 low gear, I should probably not be trying to make it up that thing.

But hypothetically...

If I wanted to put, say, an 11-speed 11-46 MTB cassette on an older 105 rear hub (FH5600), could it be done?

I've seen various conflicting stories about what works with what, and one of the stories says that you can put an 11-speed MTB cassette on a 9-speed MTB freehub "because the freehub is longer," which smells to me of BS. To the best of my recall, in the 7/8/9 days, the cassette-holding portion of Shimano rear hubs was the same, regardless of whether it was on an MTB or a road wheel. I also recall that the small fly in that ointment was that the earliest generations of such freehubs (on the road hubs) did not support 11t small cogs, though by the time the the FH5600 rolled around, 11t small cogs certainly were supported.

I am not (well, probably not) insane, but I am curious.

4/18/22 4:20 PM

I have no idea whatsoever on your technical question, but strenuously disagree with your assertion that you shouldn’t ride anything requiring lower than a 42-36. I have 34-32 on my road bike, 38-42 on my gravel bike, could use lower on both. My favorite ride is D2R2 where I spent about half the day in 30-32.

4/18/22 4:49 PM

quote:

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If I wanted to put, say, an 11-speed 11-46 MTB cassette on an older 105 rear hub (FH5600), could it be done?

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4/18/22 6:06 PM

I do not use lowest gear often, but 28/40 with a 11-40 cassette. I sit on the 40, and no longer pedal on descents, try to stay under 40 MPH anymore as a max.

That's 19 Gear Inches VS your 31. But I'd go up anything. I refuse to not go up something because it is stupid steep. So bale gear for those times, or if I have the bike loaded to 45-50 lbs with medium hills.

And any 11s 34t or bigger cog cassette will go on an 8/9/10 freehub as the spider for the top cog cluster is dished. I have several 11-34 11s going on 18/9/10s freehubs.

Your 9x RD won't index 11s FYI.

4/18/22 8:03 PM

As a climber, I suck--or more properly, I wheeze. But I may pull a trailer at times, so...

Thanks to you all for confirming my suspicions that it should work. As for indexing--I've just never liked it. If I can friction shift 9, I can friction shift 11.

To be sure, it's unlikely I will so this. On the other hand...

4/18/22 9:23 PM

> If I can friction shift 9, I can friction shift 11.

You'd need the narrow 11s chain as well.

4/19/22 4:07 AM

Yep on the chain. For shifting, I'm presently using a Microshift 10s thumb shifter set to friction mode, and it works well. I'd likely need a new derailer or Wolftooth adapter as well.

4/19/22 11:30 AM

I tried wolf tooth on 2 occasions. Road Link, both cases performance made me take it off. I'd rather loose a gear with Shift Tech and used a RD-GS6700A-GS with Campy shifter myself. I think I got it to a 36t cog. But I am index guy, friction might be perfect application...

4/19/22 8:39 PM

Fitting the larger 11s cassettes onto 10s freehubs was an unexpected surprise, along with being able to use any size of 11s cassette on any of Mavic's earlier Ksyrium freehubs (minus the spacer of course).

Another possibility is using any Shimano or SRAM 10s cassette on earlier, un-modified Shimano 7s freehubs, the ones that don't have notched splines for an 11t cog.
This works because the 10s cassettes fit on a narrower spline length freehub body, due to their having a mere 2mm offset large cog that is not found on 8s or 9s cassettes.
So, losing the 1mm spacer that is supplied with the 10s cassette, limiting the smallest cog to 12t minimum, and finally, using a longer aluminum SRAM 11t lockring nested into the recess in the 12t cog, there is enough spline engagement and lockring thread engagement and there is also enough clearance out to the dropout.
Note that ALL eight, nine and eleven-speed cassettes are too wide to fit on 7s freehubs, only the 10s cassettes can engage the splines on a 7s freehub adequately.
This finally gave me a great way to upgrade my old Klein Performance with it's heat-treated-permanent 126mm dropout spacing (and original 7s wheelset) from 7s to 10s (12-30t in this case) using inexpensively-sourced 10s levers, rear derailer and chain.
The Klein's stiff frame, long stays and steep headtube angle work well together to give excellent handling, acceleration and comfort with well-distributed weight over the tires, so this "obsolete" and little-used 1989 model in "shimmering burgundy" may be getting some serious use after all!

4/20/22 5:37 AM

That's a very pretty bike. I haven't seen a Klein in a while, and had forgotten how nice they were, especially so today in a world that seems to have forgotten what round tubes and horizontal top tubes look like. Gorgeous color, and congratulations on the revival!

It even looks like you could equip it with racks and fenders!

4/20/22 8:44 AM

Now I'm feeling guilty about the '79 Klein Team Super that's languishing in my basement. It was my last race bike and I can't bear to part with it, but it's not rideable now, having been somewhat canabalized for parts. Since it appears that I'll never get my '77 Graftek back <sigh>, the Klein is the last remnant of my early cycling days.

4/20/22 9:28 AM

Remember when Kleins were ultimate high end custom bikes, with boron reinforcements, fancy paint, etc.? Gary Klein went to MIT, he must know what he's doing! :)

I don't doubt they were excellent bikes.

4/20/22 9:38 AM

It was, and still is a great bike. Moreover, Klein really revolutionized bike design by using oversize tubes to maximize stiffness. I put a carbon fork on mine around 1995, but I still have the original and will pop it back on when I restore it someday.

4/20/22 10:42 AM

I came very! close to a Quantum Pro, but the EMS 200 came up I could not resist, 1997 I think... And got a Titanium steerer EMS fork too. ;)

4/20/22 12:30 PM

It's amazing that people have forgotten that Kestrel was really the first successful carbon frame manufacturer and paved the way for everyone else with loads of innovations. Even now, the frame doesn't look particularly dated

Last edited by Brian Nystrom on 4/22/22 6:47 AM; edited 1 time in total

4/20/22 1:07 PM

EMS, 1st Best carbon road fork period IMO.

4/21/22 8:20 AM

So...I was having issues with throwing the chain off the chainring on the 1x9, so I thought I'd try adding a derailer extension to add a little chain tension. Turned out it wasn't that--

My problem was that I had bent the chainring. I suspect this happened initially because of a bad chain I had (maybe?) but was aggravated by the fact that I was using a Sugino PX crank, which is gorgeous, but which has a tiny BCD and uses TA Cyclotouriste-style rings. This works fine in a double or triple, because the rings are bolted to each other and the result is a very nice, solid arrangement.

However, when I went from a 46/30 combination to a 42 only, there was no sandwich support, and the ring was relatively easy to bend. The unsupported portion of the ring was just too much.

So I got a cheap 130mm crank and a leftover BB and an unramped 42, and now all is well (though I suspect the Q-factor is now higher, but I don't really care about that).

I did get a generic Wolf Tooth equivalent in the middle of all this for $10 and put it in just to supply a little more chain tension, and judging from my (friction) shifting, it seems to be working well.

4/21/22 8:45 AM

Man, that brings back memories of what a PITA it was to disassemble/assemble the TA triple that came with my "83 Fat Chance (as long as we're discussing vintage....) And you had to do things in the proper order....

4/21/22 8:53 AM

No kidding. With 130 rings, you can change rings without removing the crank or pedals, but the TA rings won't fit over pedals, so...

Here's what I wrote about the PX back in 2014 when I installed the thing:

https://lawschoolissoover.wordpress.com/2014/06/30/little-changes-make-me-cranky/

4/21/22 9:07 AM

Complete with Rolf wheels even. Nice find. I recall lusting after a Kestrel 200 ems back in the 90's.

4/21/22 9:15 AM

The Kestrel is long long gone. But it was my first +5k mile/year bike back when. :)

4/21/22 10:33 PM

Although not an original design, and limited to a 25mm tire, this fork crown was high on the list of quality touches that impressed me enough to buy the bike:



The early Kestrels were as modern as anything and were priced accordingly.
I bought this one about 15 years ago as part of a his/hers pair with the smaller-framed specimen having long since been sold off:


Yet other 126mm-spaced exotics from that same era have found a home here, this die-cast model comes to mind:


This one being the 20th production frame out of Craig Calfee's shop: