2/24/22 9:57 AM

Since Bob informed me Carl is still welding (Ti) under the Strong brand as well as laying up carbon for Pursuit I've been leaning toward the Ti option. Not only is it cheaper I feel like it's more easily maintained (esp aesthetically with no paint to chip) and likely a better ride for a heavier rider such as myself.

Would there be any negatives in going in that direction?

[EDIT] Oi vei....just pinged Carl and lead times for Ti are "at least a year"

2/24/22 11:50 AM

Is there a geometry need for going custom?

BTW; Lynskey currently.

SAVE 25% OFF on FRAMES/FRAMESETS
Coupon Code: NEWFRAME25

Helix Pro Disc?

https://lynskeyperformance.com/helix-pro-disc-road-frameset/


I got a 2019 when Lynskey did a stupid sale. And they screwed up on sending the fork.. Anyway, free up grade to a ENVE fork.

So the 1250.00 I paid for frame and ENVE, and Industrial mill finish no less... How do you pass that up. Base finish for Pro is Industrial Mill now, so no extra for it.

Today with Lynskey fork; 2137.50, made is US and lifetime warranty seems pretty decent by 2022 standards.

Won't take a year to get either.

2/24/22 12:13 PM

Geometry need? No, not really. But when a vendor provides outstanding quality in both product and service, as Carl consistently does, I'm generally a very loyal customer even if it's not the most economical choice.

2/24/22 12:24 PM

Well, go google the Lynskey if you like. Options.

I already dropped my weight from 236 to 200 lb when I got it. Point being it is quite Stout rolling.

What I like is the geom is a touch different than RR in that the WB and TT are a touch generous, which I like. The 2019 fits 30mm tires, some 32s but tight. The new ones fit 32s now. Good for Clydes...

Here it is rolling on a day trip. Although I use the Domane Classic Team Issued almost exclusively... Nice Ti Backup bike. ;)



Guess I got to cut the steerer at some point, shows how little attention it gets with the DoMonster in the stable.

2/24/22 12:40 PM

Nuther possible direction if you like Spesh/S-Works Roubaixs...

BTW; I know for a fact they will take 1100.00 offer on these. Another one I had to do after selling off a few Ti road and CX frames, #coinage_influx


NIB, S-works SL4 warranty frames clearance. Included the Ceramic BB and CG-R post as well as Di2 and cabled bits for the frame. HS also came with.

I actually like this rolling better than the HelixPro. Will sell one of them in the Spring is the plan, hoping Helix.

>2014 Specialized S-Works Roubaix SL4 Disc Frameset 56CM NEW https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/313625723875

2/24/22 4:30 PM

I don’t think there are any negatives to going with ti, though I also think the negatives you associate with carbon are not really negatives (other than cost, depending on how you look at that). I have 2 painted carbon bikes and I spend 0 time maintaining the frame (I’m sure there are a couple minor chips and scratches but I ignore them) and there is certainly no problem with a properly designed carbon frame accommodating your weight (I am not light myself, and as to power output all the pros ride carbon). Just get what you like.

2/25/22 9:47 AM

I was also thinking about ride quality, carbon being stiffer and less forgiving.

It's not like I'll be racing...maybe I'll just deal with the year wait and ride my gravel this summer.

2/25/22 10:38 AM

>ride quality, carbon being stiffer and less forgiving


refer to my fits 32mm tires comments. Let bigger tires with lower PSi do this. Although longer WB sure calm things down rolling.

I seem to ride the longer WB bikes I have, not using the RR bikes nearly as much anymore. Probably should liquidate some...

The boxes checked syndrome:
When you hear me tout the Domane Classics being my #1. The main reasons are, it fits 30mm tire, and has design provisions to take the edges off. These 2 alone in conjunction make for a comfy bike also way stiffer than I could begin to exploit on that plane. It is a Pro level frame made for Pro Power, nothing I close close to anymore, if I ever did. ;)

Most interestingly; 72.8 HTA with 53mm rake makes for the middle ground IMO. Not what RR bike my size usually have [74^HTAs], and not 71-2^ w/high trail we see on Gravel stuff most commonly. This Team Domane trail is 51mm, getting pretty low comparatively.

If I have another custom made, the discussion of why I would not duplicate the DoMonster's front end geom will be lengthy.

It also has a 104.5 CM WB, Although you don't really feel it is a Lorry, it adds ample stability rolling over pretty much most things 30mm tire might roll over.


Dan Casd and I, and other road riding friends all seem to agree, pavement and tires too big has a cross over point. Usually in the 28-32mm range ceiling. Me, it is 30mm. I don't even run 25 anymore.

2/28/22 9:28 AM

"I was also thinking about ride quality, carbon being stiffer and less forgiving."

While this was largely true ten years ago, when all the pros thought "stiffer is better, even if it hurts", it's not even close to true now. Yeah, there are still ultra-stiff models out there for people who want them, but the emphasis for the past several years has been on tuning carbon frames to provide lateral stiffness for efficient power transfer, with vertical compliance for comfort. This is something that's difficult to do with metal frames, including Ti, as you can only manipulate the tubing so much. Carbon fiber allows almost unlimited tuning of flex in any plane. There are also bikes like the Domane that Sparky spoke about that include suspension features, in that case flexible couplings between the seat tube and top tube/seat stays, and in the head tube, that allow flex and damp vibration. There are other forms of "micro-suspension" on other carbon bikes like thin, flattened seat stays and flattened chainstays designed to flex vertically, but still be laterally stiff. Specialized's Future Shock is an actually spring system in the head tube/fork.

Ti is essentially a lifetime material and it rides great, but it does have some drawbacks. It's not as tunable as carbon fiber, since there are limits on how much you can shape it and you can only make the tubing so thin. A Ti frame is typically going to be a pound or so heavier than a comparable level carbon frame. There are some frames like Moots' YBB series that include a rear suspension system, so you can achieve a similar level of compliance and comfort as carbon frames. I haven seen any with front suspension/damping, though it should be possible, especially with a system similar to Specialized's.

The fact that virtually all new road bikes will accommodate at least 28mm tires is a real game changer. Combined with wider rims for even more air volume, you can run much lower air pressure (60's - 70's) without the risk of pinch flats (if you run tubes), and tubeless systems allow you to take that to another level. The difference in comfort is huge and there is no loss of efficiency. Even a stiff road race frame will feel downright cushy, at least until you hit something large enough that significant frame flex is required.

Another great option is a gravel bike. There are performance-oriented models that handle like a road race bike, but provide the versatility of running any size road tire and up to 40-45mm off-road tires. One frame and a couple of pairs of wheels and you've essentially got the "Swiss Army Knife of bikes", which is perfect for those of us who aren't racing. Cyclocross bikes are another option that provides similar versatility, albeit skewed toward the performance end of the spectrum. My gravel bike is actually a cyclocross bike with fatter tires (40mm) and lower gearing (46/30, 12-32 11-spd). It works fine on the road too, with fat slicks (35mm, though I may go narrower) and a 12-28 cassette.

2/28/22 10:08 AM

In Rob's 1st thread "I just got a Cervelo gravel bike from a friend who sold his LBS"

So you musta missed that Brian.

2/28/22 10:36 AM

I blame it on over-enthusiasm.

3/3/22 7:54 PM

Too bad this is too big for you, saw it on paceline.net classifieds.

Stainless mostly... EPS, and the sexy G3 Bora One DB wheels too!

Stelbel Antenore Disc

3/3/22 9:32 PM

Or a Lemond 8 maybe:

3/4/22 10:26 AM

¿Que? paceline.net shows as 'domain for sale'

3/4/22 11:36 AM

Oops, thepaceline.net

3/4/22 5:48 PM

But yeah...that Lemond is pretty sexy...minus the (what appears to be?) SRAM bits. Horrid stuff.

3/4/22 6:16 PM

First, I find that LeMond unbearably fugly, but that’s a matter of personal taste.

But SRAM horrid? I have SRAM e-Tap on a road bike, and a Red mechanical 1x11 on a gravel bike, and like them both (the 1x11 better). Hardly horrid. Otherwise I have many Campy gruppos from ‘57 Gran Sport to Record to Croce d’Aune (biggest POS gruppo ever) to 10 speed Record to 11 speed Chorus (all mechanical). My favorite is the 1x11 SRAM. I don’t think e-tap is any better than Chorus or Record mechanical, and is a bit slower, but overall comparable. I love the 1x11. I don’t find SRAM horrid at all.

3/4/22 9:00 PM

But SRAM horrid?

I think folks that only try Apex say that. Force&Red 22 and newer usually will convert...

I am only doing Di2 and have 11s pre 2015 Campy on my Italian rigs and Look 585.

I don't see myself going 12s, ever...

I do have R8000 on a bike, but the lever swingy thing and my cubital tunnel pain don't mix...

3/5/22 11:18 AM

Ok, I was a touch forceful in my opinion because all my info is a decade old. I had a SRAM group a long time ago and couldn't get rid of it fast enough. I hated the way it shifted using the same lever. I tried for several weeks but could never get the hang of it and constantly failed to shift or shifted the wrong way.

I also have zero interest in e-shifting. Can I officially be called a retro-grouch now? (not to imply that I'm ready to go back to downtube shifters....)

3/5/22 12:01 PM

Rob.

Di2 is SO excellent, if you've not tried it you may be similarly eating sram shoe. Just saying

I rode a few SRAM bikes in 2013. I also did not like the single lever action aspect. But the Force did shift fast and well I thought. I stayed with 7800 ordering new ST-7800 @ LBS cost. It was a 9 to 10s Upgrade. My Strong was 7700 for 13 years of use as main bike [with broke leg sabbatical of 3 seasons]. Nutha story, but if not for change compact gearing, it might have been longer..

With my cubital tunnel syndrome, it might be a solution actually. But Di2 is my fix for it.

Actually I rode Micro Shift initially for two seasons to finally stop my right arm from hurting all the time. Went to Di2 from there and started selling of 7800 stuff.

The Microshift has a trigger and a paddle. The paddle does what the campy bigger lever does, the trigger is a button that just clicks one gear pop at a time for up-shift. I still actually quite like these.

In fact I mis-shift the least on the Microshift between all Shimano and the Microshift. Also Ergo are low mis-shifting [fatigue induced usually] usually.

3/5/22 1:42 PM

I recall when electronic shifting first came out and I thought it was a solution looking for a problem to solve and I honestly still feel that way. Disclaimer- never ridden an e-shift bike and fully admit that I am speaking from a point of ignorance about the experience of doing so.

I get (from personal reports) that it's more precise, even shockingly precise when you first use it, and that it's possibly even more reliable as long as the batteries have juice and, for me, that caveat the rub. I don't want to have to charge my drivetrain to be sure it won't die on me when I'm 30mi from home with nothin but rolling hills on the way back. I also work in IT and with wireless signals and being aware of the plethora of possible interferences in the modern world is a concern as well.

I'm sure those are corner-case concerns, they wouldn't be popular if they dropped out a lot or failed but I still can't see the point and checking the charge on the derailleur is simply something I don't want to do. Analog shifting is a little sloppy, maybe I have to nudge a gear up or down every now and again, but it works for tens of thousands of miles and it works consistently. In my experience cassettes and chains will wear out many times over before cables fail or need significant adjustment. I've never been riding and wished for a better system or felt that a cable-actuated drivetrain was somehow not up to the task required of it.

I guess that's what it comes down to for me- I just don't see the point. To be clear, I'm not trying to shit on them or judge anyone who uses them. Cable shifting isn't perfect, but it's more than good enough for me and it comes with less (as I perceive it) hassle to maintain. Maybe it's the IT engineer in me, I live and breathe by the KISS principle and will never add complexity unless absolutely necessary.

I'm also not against improvements. I think disc brakes are fabulous. They are still "new tech" to me as the last time I rode regularly (outside) it was still with rim pads. The hills in Seattle are bloody scary (PDX, too) with rim brakes and I've been wanting discs for years. They are the main reason why I'm looking to replace my steel Strong.

I'm honestly curious to understand what it's like to ride e-shifters, if that's even a term. Bob, you obviously have some medical issues that they help you with but do the batteries crap out on rides? Does the wireless connection ever have issues? What is so amazing about the shifting that they are worth the added expense?

3/5/22 3:05 PM

Di2 is all e-tube wired. As far as battery life, it shows signs of getting low. 1st the front auto trim stops working, hard not to notice. Then the FD will stop working. Then last but not least if you are successful in ignoring those 2 signs, the rear will be in the gear it is in for your ride home once it quits due to dead battery.

I have lost front once out on the road, and stopped at a LBS and got a gratis charge enough to ride out the day while I got coffee. Been on Di2 for main bike for 5 years now.

Even the early 10s Di2 systems are very reliable, I have run 2 of those.

My Strong All Road is XT Di2. You can use road ST-Di2 shifter with either road of MTB.

My fav part is having extra shifting pods on bar tops, and even out on the tip of the Deda Areo loop built in bars. I use these for rear shifting 20x more than the STi buttons.

Last edited by Sparky on 3/5/22 3:43 PM; edited 1 time in total

3/5/22 3:15 PM

FWIW, I changed up the Strong Allroad just the other day.

Pulled the drop bars/road shifters an put on XT Di2 Pods on Answer 20/20 carbon bars. The Di2 side is truly plug and play.

Test loop with 47x650b on gravel Thurs was good enough to leave it this way for a bit. Which usually means a long while with me, if not full suk from the start.

That frame made in 2015 Di2 ready had an initial CX flared drop bars with barcons and XT FD/RD setup that was temporary... for 6 years. ;) Even had a triple initially. [For when using the panniers loaded]

It is embarrassing that I used the lowest gear the other day after saying out loud so many times it is geared so low I'll probably never use the range...

Was a good bit of hill getting outta the little canyon I went down into though... And early in the year, excuses excuses...

3/5/22 4:01 PM

As I said before, I can take or leave e-shifting. For me it works fine, but doesn’t have any significant advantage over mechanical. It’s not hard to check and recharge batteries. But I let it slip once in awhile. Never been stranded on the road, I think I’ve lost the front and/or rear mech, don't remember clearly. I have gone to ride a few times and found it run down. Fortunately I have alternate bikes….:).

I’m almost always on the hoods, so I don’t have any use for shifting pods.

It’s true you don’t need to maintain cables, but like you I don’t really do much of that anyway.

I might get e-shifting on a new bike, but I’d never change a mechanical shifting setup just to get e-shifting. If I ever get another bike, I could get either, probably would depend on gearing setup more than mech vs. e-shifting.

3/5/22 4:38 PM

I will add; When it came to pass SH and Campy 11s worked interchangeably wheel/cassette wise...

I started adding Campy back into my collection @ 11 speed. Was without since 9Sp on the C-35 1999.

If I had to choose between loosing the 11s Ergo or Di2 I'd probably stick with the Campy. I would miss my extra shifting points, but that about it.

I would not do Di2 with out the interfaces to diddle at the service level with a PC. I got the interface box with 1st setup.

But with phone and a b-tooth module on bike you can do most of what the interface does. But not diagnostics at the per component level.

I am not paying a LBS for Di2 cgf work, I configured way too many a firmware device since early 90s to pay for that which I know.