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-Tour De France 2020
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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1689

9/17/20 7:27 AM

I dont believe that the TT will be the deciding factor "if" nothing changes today, no way that Pog is taking a minute out of Rog in the TT, and I doubt that Porte can take almost 2 minutes of of Lopez on the TT.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17950
Location: Portland, OR

9/17/20 8:13 AM

I think Pogacar will take time in the TT, but not enough I'd guess.

They shoulda let Sepp take the stage for all his hard work. Looked like it would have been a cake walk for him to just ride up the road in the last ks.

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LeeW
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 381
Location: near Baltimore, MD

9/17/20 10:35 AM

I would not wish it on any racer, but it will probably take a flat tire with bike change at an inopportune time to make the ITT critical now.

Anyone recall the Bjarne Riis Olympic "bike throw" from the ITT of the '97 TdF?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17950
Location: Portland, OR

9/17/20 12:59 PM

"Bjarne Riis Olympic "bike throw" "

Was that when it went up the road a bit and rested upright gingerly against the wall along the right of course? Or am I thinking the Wiggins toss?


EIDT: now you got me doing this:

http://britishcyclesport.com/2013/training/top-bike-throws/

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LeeW
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 381
Location: near Baltimore, MD

9/17/20 1:31 PM

Sorry, I probably misled when I added in the word Olympic.

I was referring to the last ITT of the 97 TdF when Riis had problems with his high tech Pinarello aero bike and got so disgusted that he threw it off the side of the road.

My point was supposed to be that if something mechanical were to happen that caused even a 20-30 sec time loss, the picture could change quickly.

No one wants to see bad luck, but it has happened before.

Bad luck almost burned Ritchie Porte in today's stage.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17950
Location: Portland, OR

9/17/20 2:40 PM

Ineos at least had one good day...

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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1689

9/17/20 4:01 PM

Id say the most Pog takes is 10 seconds, which wont change anything.
And in all honesty I wouldn't be at all surprised if Rog actually takes time in the TT.
He looked strong and motivated today when he put in a acceleration on the gravel section.

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LeeW
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 381
Location: near Baltimore, MD

9/18/20 10:02 AM

I basically agree with you Henoch.

I think to be close after the ITT, it would take a super day from Pog' combined with either a mechanical difficulty that required team car support or perhaps overbaking a corner and going off the road from Rog'.

I don't wish that on anyone, but it does happen.
I recall a TdF final ITT where Armstrong and Ulrich were very close in time, but Ulrich slid out and crashed on a wet roundabout and even though he got back on, that allowed Armstrong to ease up and not take any more chances.

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LeeW
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 381
Location: near Baltimore, MD

9/19/20 10:11 AM

Stage 20: UFB!

Henoch we were wrong!

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6453
Location: Maine

9/19/20 1:11 PM

Mega Epic

That was the kind of finish I was hoping for, but like you guys I thought it was over and almost didnít watch. I think itís what Eddy said about the last tt being a whole different thing - the Tour caught up with Rog and he was fighting his legs the whole way, where Pog wasnít feeling the pedals.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3074
Location: Midland, MI

9/19/20 2:34 PM

Fast forward

I always fast forward through large portions of any Tour TT, and so it was with this one. Until the end!

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17950
Location: Portland, OR

9/19/20 3:17 PM

But not enough I'd guess ???

How heavy is three jerseys?

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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1689

9/20/20 6:04 AM

Indeed I was wrong.

Also Roglic didn't really have a bad day I mean he did get 5th, as much as Pogacar and some kind of out of this world day, not only beating Rog by 2 minutes but also Waut van Aert and Tom D, 2 of the very best in the world at the TT but well over a minute.
Did you guys see when they zoomed in on those 2 as Pog was crossing the line, an absolute look of shock.
I must say I was totally stunned.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4726
Location: Nashua, NH

9/20/20 7:14 AM

WOW...just WOW.

The old saying is that everyone has at least one bad day at the Tour. Pogacar had his early on and spent the rest of the race recovering from it. Roglic had his on the day when it counted the most. While it's true the Pogacar rode out of his skin yesterday, there's no way Roglic would have conceded nearly two minutes if he was riding well.

This has certainly been the most unpredictable and entertaining Tour in a while. Assuming that we have a more normal race season next year, it will be interesting to see how things develop.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17950
Location: Portland, OR

9/20/20 9:49 AM

Pog probably made Lopez feel like he pulled into a empty parking lot on that pass. Turn, what turn?

That had to be a debilitating psyche moment....

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6453
Location: Maine

9/20/20 10:11 AM

Good effort

Rog gave it all he had and rode a good time, but, in looking at comparative times, you have to consider this was an extreme uphill time trial. And Rog truly had do or die incentive.

To me he just didnít look good on the bike. He was kind of all over the place, and seemed to be riding a pretty high cadence for a tt, which I took as indicating his legs were talking. Pog was riding a bigger gear and smooth as silk. I think Rog would have been a lot closer with good legs.

What does Pog do for an encore? :)

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17950
Location: Portland, OR

9/20/20 10:34 AM

Agree, Primos looked panicked and in trouble after a point.

And a hot TT helmet once they hit the climb probably did not help.

Considering all the team 'help' Primos had that Pog did not... I did not expect quite this result.

Also, Primos and Wout had the 125% drool going. I did not notice Pog in this level of stress. I did see him stand to maintain the gear a lot, and not stop that power cadence for the entire TT.

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LeeW
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 381
Location: near Baltimore, MD

9/20/20 11:31 AM

I also think that some of the race organizers have gone to the very end of the spectrum to try to make the ITT as brutal of course as possible. Such a course totally handicaps traditional time trial riders like Tony Martin or perhaps Fabian Cancellara from the past. I would've liked to have seen how Castroviejo would have done.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17950
Location: Portland, OR

9/20/20 11:40 AM

Dis-organizers....

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6453
Location: Maine

9/20/20 1:54 PM

tt course

This was a brutal uphill tt that was an integral part of the GC rather than an event for the tt specialists.

I guess you could say it diminishes flat tting as part of the GC skill set.

I guess you could also say it eliminates some of the strong climbing team influence.

Take your pick. Iím happy with how this turned out. If it was a flat tt maybe Rog would have won and it would have been much less exciting.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17950
Location: Portland, OR

9/20/20 3:58 PM

When I actually have no dog in a fight, I tend to go underdog. That is what I did, but really did not think it was going to happen. So I am pleased..


+/- 40 min TT followed by a nasty uphill finish... Whew!

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Andrew Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 84
Location: Anchorage

9/21/20 9:58 PM

I actually was expecting that time trial shakeup when people were talking about Roglic being 40 seconds, 57 seconds ahead, and that being enough, because that didn't sound right to me. People really underestimate the separation you get in uphills riding alone. When I started watching the highlights, not knowing the results yet, and realized the time trial was almost an hour long, that clinched it for me.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3074
Location: Midland, MI

9/23/20 9:13 AM

differences

At the Slovenian national time trial, those two were 6 seconds apart. While the uphill nature of the TT had the potential to widen that gap, given how close the two were on the big climbs of the tour to that point, it was reasonable to think that maybe there would be a gap, "nobody" saw two minutes.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17950
Location: Portland, OR

9/23/20 9:34 AM

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/french-police-open-doping-investigation-after-arkea-samsic-hotel-search-at-tour-de-france/

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LeeW
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 381
Location: near Baltimore, MD

9/23/20 11:11 AM

To be nit-picky Kerry, the delta between the two riders at the Slovenian National TT was 9 sec, but that course was only 16 km long. However, it climbed approximately 2300 ft in elevation.

https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/nc-slovenia-itt/2020

The TdF course was more than twice as long at 36.2 km with a final climb of about 1650' (that followed an initial gain of 800'). The Slovenian course resembled the last 45% of the Tour course.

I agree that some difference could be expected, but anyone that predicted 2 min difference probably would have been laughed at.

Looking at the Slovnian TT results, I did not realize that Janez Brajkovic was still active. I recall him from the Discovery team of 15 years ago!


Last edited by LeeW on 9/23/20 4:47 PM; edited 1 time in total

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