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Trump / Putin Press Conference Reactions
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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

7/18/18 4:18 AM

oh my.

Thank you for the support over the years along the friendship and camaraderie.

No wonder I quit stopping in. I see now why our nation is failing.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/18/18 4:38 AM

Erik S. is respected in these scrolls as self-starter, curious, dedicated, and socially aware; someone whom people would expect to be analytical and critical.

Read what he repeats. It is a window into the society he is most keenly aware, where he lives. Without multiple competing cable news channels his diet of information is limited to what he overhears on radio, in conversation and by what he seeks on the internet.

Erik condemns cable news because it divides. Maybe without contrasting views his analysis is starved of data.

He wrote ~'Obama divided the country more than any President since the Civil War.'
I ask - Did Lincoln divide the country? Or did an issue divide the country?

The voters spoke twice, both by clear majority and in the Electoral College. What became the issue?

We might all try tuning in to hear the news from a source we reject - if only to hear what many people trust or rely upon, what they prefer. On "summit Monday" the first station I tuned to was Fox. In the past they avoided what was the story of the day, the story every other outlet was covering. Imagine my surprise when dissent came streaming out of the panel.

Tuesday morning when I tuned into Fox and Friends for the first time ever the coverage was focused away from dissent.

Fox and Friends, try it with the sound off, It's like flash cards with video. Turn the volume on when the couch-crowd appears and pretend you are the President, the rhythm of the eye contact with the delivery is uncanny and the flash cards keep the mind on topic.

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4391
Location: metro-motown-area

7/18/18 7:07 AM

all this blather about division and BO/HC/etc side-steps the point of this thread and the question i posed:

"that your portfolio is doing well enough, a president rolling over for the enemy that you personally fought to defeat for most of your military career is acceptable POTUS behavior to you?"

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/18/18 7:40 AM

My portfolio more than tripled under Obama. It's doing well now, for sure.

However my observation about change-of-administrations is true so far: Democrats come in tagged with "tax n' spend" so they want to not f- up. As a consequence the land of opportunity rewards them and a strong steady economy, an economic foundation is built and material is always ready for the process to continue. (FYI, Regan continued Carter's fiscal strategy.)

Allow me to stretch the metaphor.

Then Republicans come into office "taxcut and wink" The economy builds faster, the materials (incentives, markets, rates) start to run out, they use less rebar, the hauling sevice is cut in half so waste starts to build up and get in the way. Then they complain about the waste getting in the way and order the hauling service to double their load per trip (per-capita efficiency.) The truck breaks down, new materials can't be delivered. They keep trying to build but now the floors where they started are too weak to support the tower above it.

You see where I'm going with this. Let's hope it doesn't pancake.

All I can say is thank goodness the Fed is raising the rate. That's the first line of defense these days.

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4391
Location: metro-motown-area

7/18/18 8:22 AM

i heard a funny term today

"putin republicans"

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/18/18 8:27 AM

Republicans come into office "taxcut and wink"

It does no take too much research to see the administrations being GOP and when the recessions fall.

How quickly the GOP voters forget, or choose to forget what 8 years of Bush handed us economically in 2008. Is this a forgive and forget item worth the price of admission?? I don't get this.

"No wonder I quit stopping in. I see now why our nation is failing"

And Trump is going to fix it I guess. Erik, this is disappointing to me to read. How many of us DEMS here made contributions to your daughters go fund me? Which I'd do again tomorrow regardless of this nonsense. I say this not to put it in your face but to point out people are and should be above this, being all Americans.

Seems you are the one putting politics above folks here it seems to me. I feel no commensurate respect coming from you to respect those who believe differently that you do, what you fought for in your service. What my brother and my father fought for in their service. At least that is what I thought you served for, the right for freedom of choice being one. Thanks for at least being polite about it.

Let's just have a civil war, which being called civil is the biggest joke of all.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/18/18 8:33 AM

yeah, Walter. I don't see what is funny about that I have to say.

I love when my fellow Ameicans sit back and watch this clown shoes in the white house put his Russian portfolios above America.

Every claim he was unfit for the job is being proved out by his actions.

I had enough of this shit, going out for a bike ride.

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3712
Location: Brooklyn, NY

7/18/18 8:34 AM

Can someone explain to me exactly what crimes HC is supposed to have committed? And why people hate her so much?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/18/18 8:56 AM

She asked to go to the bathroom during the Benghazi hearings.

Seriously, don't you watch fox news? ;)

At least when the Clintons were having covert meetings it was with other Americans and not Putins lackeys.

And of course the Clintons Assassinated Scalia, or was that one of Stormy Daniels co-workers. That one went under the rug so fast it made my head spin. And Seth Rich, the list goes on...

The GOP was so afraid of her winning after the hearings fruits were rotten and didn't work they looked away. And still look away with DT giving Russia a free hand to damage democracy. I was once a GOP voter, I did not vote for Clinton. If I was today a GOP voter, this travesty going on right now would be more than plenty to get this party outta the white house by flipping parties. If Trump can do it, I guess I can too.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/18/18 9:03 AM

To be fair to Erik and Brian, this is a predominately liberal gang.

It's like going to a Planned Parenthood meeting and showing "Stop the killing!". The reaction is predictable.

But if your wife and daughters are both in there, you don't have much choice but to attend. Keeping silence isn't any easier either.

I'm most alarmed by the "Obama divide the country" part...

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

7/18/18 11:05 AM

Erik, here's some insight from a fellow conservative

I bowed out of politics here recently and I suggest that you do too, for the following reasons:

These days, if you don't agree with the liberal-elite-wannabees here, you're branded a Nazi. We're all exactly the same, don't you know? At least according to one or two people here. Hypocrisy rules the day!

Don't bother trying to make logical arguments about politics here. These are emotional issues for them and they're never going to listen or give your opinion any thought. There's no such thing as nuance here anymore, either.

Typically what happens now is that a certain person here either twists your words, edits them to suit her agenda, or simply makes up bullshit and attributes it to you. It's the most juvenile crap I've seen here from someone who is supposed to be an intelligent adult. It's like being back in Jr. High School.

Basically, these discussions end up degrading rapidly into nothing but hysterics and personal insults, and as Trump would likely put it, they've turned this forum into a shithole.

That's why I dropped out of political discussions. Besides, I've realized that it's more fun to sit back and watch them twist their panties into a wad, preaching to each other while looking for someone to blame when some of them probably didn't even vote. Grab a beer and pull up a chair, it's a pretty entertaining show when you sit on the sidelines!

FWIW, on the rare occasions when we actually discuss something cycling-related, we all get along just fine and there are still useful insights being shared. If there's any hope for this forum surviving, it will require banning political discussions entirely. There are plenty of other places for that crap online; it doesn't belong here, IMO.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/18/18 11:48 AM

LOL! Talk about being delusional!


quote:
If there's any hope for this forum surviving, it will require banning political discussions entirely.

Go back and count how many threads/post that are cycling related during the last month. I'll even pay you minimum wage for the time it take to do the count. ...'cause it won't take long!

And go ahead and count the POLITICAL threads/posts for a compare too.

The only reason this forum hasn't yet died is thanks to the "Sparky's blog", which is to a large part political (or should I say "Trump bashing rant"?) ;-)

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

7/18/18 1:14 PM

Of course, the real problem eludes you April, even though you basically tripped over it.

Nobody new is joining this forum and the most likely reason is that anyone who comes here expecting cycling information (it's supposed to be "Where Cyclists Talk Tech", remember?) will take one look at all of the political crap and lack of cycling content and leave, never to return. This garbage is killing the forum, whether YOU want to believe it or not. If it's going to survive, it needs CYCLING content. Otherwise, we may as well change the tag line to "Where Old Farts Bitch About the World."

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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1690

7/18/18 1:34 PM

I think this was touched upon in another thread, but it looks like new people can't register?.

I try and jump into every cycling related thread (as I know you do as well Brian), but it seems that they are rather thin... :(

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/18/18 1:56 PM

Why do people hate HRC? She is not a people person. She doesn't do retail politics very well and she has taken some back-room dealing too far. She fails to understand political optics. Her husband cheated on her and she didn't leave him. She comes across as entitled. Stories circulate about how she mistreated White House career staff.

HRC corruption? The dog whistle "Benghazi" still provokes a reaction from the least informed of the electorate that despises HRC. Never mind multiple Republican Congressional investigations yielded no culpability before they were quietly closed.

Look up the the Uranium One deal. The NYT is critical of the Clinton Foundation for taking $2.35M from the chairman of Rosatom and Bill Clinton for taking $500K for a speech in Moscow. The entity that provided the windfall is linked to Rosatom (IIRC,) the state enterprise that stood to benefit from a stake in a Canadian uranium mining company. The Times characterizes the sale as one of three transactions that resulted in Rosatom being the world leader in uranium mining. This is from memory, I don't think it's far off the mark.

(Note, compare the Clinton Foundation to the Trump Organization Charities.)

As a voting Democrat who does not trust Russia, I do not like that BC did that. Frankly, any politician who runs a charity that is not forthrightly transparent is open to harsh examination.

However, the Uranium One deal, IIRC involved a 20% stake in a Canadian mining company that holds uranium mining leases in the U.S. There were several regulatory agencies that needed to approve the deal.

Conspiracy hosts have characterized the deal in many ways, including it as a sale of weapons grade uranium to Russia.

Essentially, everyone who does business with Russia gets burned.

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Pino
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 168
Location: Apeldoorn - The Netherlands

7/18/18 2:11 PM

Just a short observation from someone far away with limited knowledge/feeling of your language.

I can grab some reasons of why many US people mistrust authorities and institutions. But why they put their belief in the actual president I cannot understand. There seems to be no options somewhere in between. This might be caused just by these institutions .

In French " se tromper" means "to have been wrong". Having been trumped could be a new fitting expression.

Met (almost) all nice people when on holiday in the US and they probably voted both side. I will be back (and love you).

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/18/18 2:14 PM

Brian: Why the forum does not have new blood:

You need to be logged out to do this empirically. It can also be done from a private/incognito browser session if you do not want to log out. I will also link the registration page directly; it works the same whether you are logged in or not.

Go to this page:
http://cyclingforum.com/phpBB2/login.php (If you are logged in you will be silently redirected to: http://cyclingforum.com/phpBB2/index.php )

Click an icon along the top that looks like this:


Or skip those two steps and go straight to this terms-of-service page: http://cyclingforum.com/phpBB2/profile.php?mode=register

Agree to the terms.

What happens next is why there is no one new on this forum.

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3712
Location: Brooklyn, NY

7/18/18 2:15 PM

"Note, compare the Clinton Foundation to the Trump Organization Charities."

I assume that was meant as a joke.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/18/18 2:32 PM

Yeah, that and I'm getting writer's cramp. All this writin's cramping my schedule!

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

7/18/18 2:33 PM

"What happens next is why there is no one new on this forum."

Yeah, I'd say that's a bit of an impediment. Who is the webmaster these days?

For those who haven't seen it, clicking on the link results in the following message: "Sorry, but this username has already been taken."

There's no option presented to register a username and password.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/18/18 2:40 PM

We don't ban for the same reason those who can moderate do not.

Say what you want, I may not like it and/or think it is misguided. But you get to say what ever you want. When that stops, or if DT gets a second term, we are retiring to the meridian or Scottand. In fact our 40th anniversary is recon for exactly this.

"This garbage is killing the forum"

Just redirecting it for a while. These threads and volume of post show [prove?] it.

"Where Old Farts Bitch About the World."

And we already have twitter for that.

"Basically, these discussions end up degrading rapidly into nothing but hysterics and personal insults"

Not counting some of your post in particular to April I noticed.

If ANTney comes in here and see this shit he may close it down. Maybe it is time?

When was the last time anyone here has donated, the few which have know who they are.

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4391
Location: metro-motown-area

7/18/18 3:31 PM

BO was the worst POTUS

<img src=https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37329496_598655083864032_3508517891718774784_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=208504a85dc66dc42c6bde8362bf8ae9&oe=5BD1052E>

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/18/18 4:21 PM

Tan suit, brown mustard, 🤨

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

7/18/18 5:25 PM

As I read through this thread. I would like to ensure everyone understands me, which I don't think any of you really do.

So, what do I stand for? Very moderate views.
Abortion, I don't like it but support the choice.

The constitution? All rights have limits and the ones in place now are fine but the limits posed need to apply nationally. States should not determine restrictions of the nation's constitution.

Immigration? We are nation of immigrants; our great grandparents came here in droves, legally through controlled means. Our nation's security requires us to have secure borders. Bring the huddled masses, through gates, not through an open desert.

To insinuate I did not support President Obama because of his race is disgusting and actually points toward his supporters only supporting him because of his race. I don't give two shits about the color of a person's skin. This very point is why I say he divided the country. Never once did he discourage protestors from destroying the cities (Charlotte comes to mind because it is close to me). Never once did he talk about pride in our nation. Hell, he often did not ever salute troops or render appropriately to the anthem. His policies led to discord and divide.

I do not echo those around me, in fact I lean very left.

As far as being ill informed because I don't watch cable news and because you perceive me as living in an echo chamber. I get my information from ALL sources (outside of cable news) and formulate my personal opinions based on the facts presented from all points of view. The media is misleading without lying; they present stories to their audience to sell advertising slots. CNN panders to the left, FNC panders to the right, they both sell ads between the pandering. Take time to look at how the news is presented, one outlet will sell something as a positive; another will report the same story as a negative. How it is presented is all about the target audience.

Our current president did not handle the Russian summit well, I agree, and his predecessors did no better. In my opinion, we should not give a shit about Russia but have an effective counter to all threats against our economy, and nation as a whole. Russia is an insignificant player in the world and if they did not have a bazillion left over USSR nukes they would not matter at all.

He has thus far handled the DPRK issue well, his childish bluster forced the DPRK to talk. The old adage, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome stands true here. He is approaching the DPRK problem differently than past administrations and looks right now to be getting results.

To come here and see everyone piling on the current administration upsets me because this microcosm is a reflection of much of the nation. We have turned into "Us vs Them" instead of working together to compromise. George Washington warned about having political parties and this is why; it has eroded our nation and divided us as a whole. You should be embarrassed because you have been manipulated by "talking points".

Altruism vs Socialism

Socialism will not work, some things such as medical care should lean more that direction but I would posit most medical advances and pharmaceutical advances in particular come because there is money to be made from it. The world's socialized medical care works because of our “for profit” pharmaceutical companies are out to make a buck. Handing our money to poor does not do anything but enable them to remain in that social program loop. Bringing back jobs and hiring the nation's unemployed to do the work ends that cycle.

Of course thank you to everyone who helped my daughter during a time of need. I would point out, she had medical coverage and that was very clear from the start, she and her husband work and pay for it. The help for her was for unknown incidentals that were not covered by her insurance. She was not and is not on any form of government provided medical plan. I also posted were every dime of your money went. It payed for copays and such early on in the transplant. The remaining money was donated to the NKF which I shared here. Your assistance to my daughter was altruistic, not socialist.

There is an enormous difference between altruism and socialism. Altruistic behavior is what the people here did for my daughter. It was the choice of the individual to help her.

Socialism is when the government takes your tax money and gives it to those who don’t contribute to the national tax burden. You have no choice in socialist society except through your vote. If you support socialism, move to Stockton CA, they are planning on giving homeless person $500, that should buy a few rocks of meth… Other cities are considering the same sort of thing. Why not give them a job, cleaning the city streets, tearing down urban blight and old rotting structures and have them do like Habitat For Humanity does, put some sweat equity into a home off the street?

The intelligent people here should be embarrassed because your thought processes will never heal the country.


I will post no more. In fact I debated whether I should post this.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/18/18 7:53 PM

Talk about "tripping over" THE reason!


quote:
Of course, the real problem eludes you April, even though you basically tripped over it.

Nobody new is joining this forum and the most likely reason is that anyone who comes here expecting cycling information (it's supposed to be "Where Cyclists Talk Tech", remember?) will take one look at all of the political crap and lack of cycling content and leave, never to return.

"The most likely reason"??? Hahaha!!!

Let me remind you this is the SECOND TIME you spewed out the SAME GARBAGE you call "reason"!!!


quote:
I'm done with this political BS, period. It's no wonder we rarely get new members,

You PURPOSELY IGNORE ALL the posts when SEVERAL people pointed out the TECHNICAL REASON why no one is able to join: this forum has no mechanism for new member to join!

Mind you, I was one of those people who bother to write out explicitly the TRUE REASON, at least the first time. Who's tripping over "the reason"???

I'm impressed by all those who have the patience to repeat what had been said several times before yet Brian REFUSE to commit to his stuffed brain -- brain stuffed with garbage!

If this is not a clear sign of "tripping over" reason, I don't know what is.

Or more precisely, the lack of ability to reason? ;-)

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