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Supreme Court decitions, SHS, RBG etc
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6420
Location: Westchester/NYC

6/30/18 10:14 AM

I know my view is unpopular. But I'm not a big fan of Obama.

He maybe a statesman. But ultimately, he's ineffective. Many argued it's due to the Republican blockage, which is true. But he did have both houses in Democratic hands when he first got elected. He didn't do enough and lost a good deal of the support from the Democratic side, which led to Republican taking back the house. At which point both his hands are tied behind his back.

Isn't the term "statesman" means not just clever words but results from the persuasion power those clever words carry?

In his second term, he signed many "progressive" Executive Orders. I was uncomfortable with that. 1) they can be reversed when a Republican become a president (which they were, reversed by Trump); 2) When he signed his last couple of very unpopular EO (the transgender bathroom, for example), he set an example for the incoming president, which Trump was in contention, to disregard the wishes of the majority. I wonder if the transgender bathroom EO ranks as the shortest life EO in history?

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4161
Location: Nashua, NH

6/30/18 12:59 PM

I was actually thinking more of Congress, but point taken. However, I find it hard to believe that Trump won't be a one-off and I expect that there will be a backlash that will at least return the Presidency to the previous standards of decorum and respect. We'll see.

I don't agree with April that we're on the brink of an apocalypse. There's always hysteria from the opposing camp when the government swings one way or the other and it generally doesn't amount to much. Trump is certainly a deviation from "business as usual", but mostly in tone and foreign policy. Although that's troubling, at this point it's still just a minor blip in the history of the office and once he's gone, I fully expect that not only will things return to normal, but people will be more cautious about maintaining functional institutions and good relations with our traditional allies. The way I see it, the more trouble Trump causes, the harder the backlash will be.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16691
Location: Portland, OR

6/30/18 1:02 PM

Somebody needs to tell Walter the sky isn't actually falling then? ;)

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4161
Location: Nashua, NH

6/30/18 2:23 PM

He seems more pissed-off than freaked-out to me...

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4360
Location: metro-motown-area

6/30/18 7:57 PM

brian nailed it. we'll be OK.

edit: im also learning alot about my fellow citizens (and myself) along the way.


Last edited by walter on 7/2/18 6:35 AM; edited 2 times in total

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4161
Location: Nashua, NH

6/30/18 8:39 PM

I think I understand where April is coming from, considering her experience in China, but the US is not, never has been and never will be a communist country. There would be an all-out civil war if we ever moved toward authoritarianism of any kind. We've faced much worse upheavals than Trump and survived; we'll survive this too.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6420
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/1/18 5:49 AM


quote:
There will be an all-out civil war if we ever moved toward (fill in the blank) any kind.

THAT is the apocalypse I’m talking about!

And it takes a lot less than authoritarian government that can trigger wide spread civil unrest which precipitates it.

Last edited by April on 7/1/18 9:17 AM; edited 1 time in total

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6420
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/1/18 9:16 AM


quote:
Trump is certainly a deviation from "business as usual", but mostly in tone and foreign policy.

Right!

That's because you didn't feel his racist and religious rhetoric a concern. Now that the court is in his pocket, fulfilling YOUR wish, those rhetoric can be easily become policy as all obstacles are now removed.


quote:
Roberts is not likely to overrule Roe v. Wade.

I’m a lot less sure about that. They proved they’re willing to go a long way to allow government policy when it aligns with their own personal ideology.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4161
Location: Nashua, NH

7/1/18 11:34 AM

"That's because you didn't feel his racist and religious rhetoric a concern."

Bullshit! Where the Hell did you get that from? I'm really getting sick of you assuming that you know me and what I think, as you don't have an f-ing clue! Go make up shit about someone else!

"Now that the court is in his pocket, fulfilling YOUR wish, those rhetoric can be easily become policy as all obstacles are now removed."

Utter nonsense! The Supreme Court is in nobody's pocket. The fact that it's becoming more conservative is nothing new and it's not an indicator of some huge upheaval. You really don't seem to have much of an understanding of our government and it's history. This is not China! We have never had an authoritarian government and our Constitution is specifically designed to prevent that from happening. What we're seeing is part of the normal back and forth that's happened throughout our history. The checks and balances are still in place, as is our electoral system. With elections every two years, our system is essentially self-correcting. If you don't like what's going on, there's simple solution....VOTE.

If you want to get all worked up over this, that's your prerogative, but it's just a lot of wasted energy.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16691
Location: Portland, OR

7/1/18 2:05 PM

Yawning again...

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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1578

7/1/18 2:43 PM

We had one upheaval that did indeed lead to a civil war, yeah we survived it but at what cost, Germany survived Hitler as well.....
If your end game is having the us survive Trump that's a pretty low bar.
I think that April is 100% right both in her concern and in her interpretation of the current political situation.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4161
Location: Nashua, NH

7/1/18 3:33 PM

It seems like "Chicken Little-ism" to me. No, the sky is not falling. We do need to be vigilant, but I don't see anything to panic over. I've seen the same wailing and hand-wringing from liberals in the past when conservatives gained ground; it's as predictable as the change of the seasons. Yet somehow we and the country have managed to survive and thrive. Imagine that...

"Surviving" Trump was probably overstatement on my part. It's like saying you "survived" a saddle sore. He's painful, annoying and disgusting, but will go away in time.

Hey Sparky, if someone was constantly putting words in YOUR mouth, misinterpreting YOUR positions and extrapolating things YOU say to ridiculous extremes, how long would it be before YOU had enough and told them to knock it off?

This junior-high-school mentality nonsense has been going on for years. My patience has run out and I'm simply not going to tolerate it anymore. I'm happy to engage with anyone in honest and respectful dialog, whether we agree with each other or not, but I won't stand for being abused anymore.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3200
Location: Springfield

7/1/18 7:18 PM

Sloganeering:
Chicken little-ism
handwringing from liberals

Have you read George F. Will lately? Do John McCain's words and actions mean nothing to you?

David Frum, a vigorous Bush and Romey supporter published Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic. “My hope for 2018 is that Adam Schiff replaces Devin Nunes as chairman of the House Intelligence Committee…”

Senator Jeff Flake "Conservatives face a crisis of principle."

Pete Wehner, the former deputy director of speechwriting for President George W. Bush, “I do hope Democrats win the House, I say that not because I’m a liberal or pro-Democrat, but because it’s important for the Republican Party and for the country.”

Jennifer Rubin, an American Exceptionalist "Democrats must make clear that the problem is a deadly combination of a hard-right congressional agenda and a chaotic president. The danger from the latter can be minimized by removing the GOP majorities, which encourage Trump’s unacceptable conduct and right-wing populism (actually a strange mix of populism and plutocrat-friendly economics.)"

Sloganeering Brian, watch Trump at the North Dakota rally this week:

"I meet these people they call them the elites. These people, I look at 'em I say `That's elite?` We got more more money. We got more brains. We got better houses, apartments. We got nicer boats. We're smarter than they are. And they say 'the elite.' We're the elite."

"...and I thought that was so brilliant. I thought `Oh, I am so smart.` I am the smartest person. My uncle was a great professor at MIT for forty years, can you believe forty years. I said. But I'm smarter than him. I'm smarter than anybody."

"A thing comes out a big poll, a couple of polls, a number of polls, that he's the most powerful, the most popular, Republican in the history of the party."

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6420
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/1/18 10:02 PM


quote:
Bullshit! Where the Hell did you get that from? I'm really getting sick of you assuming that you know me and what I think, as you don't have an f-ing clue!

If you want to get all worked up over this, that's your prerogative, but it's just a lot of wasted energy.

I wonder who's all "worked up" and wasting energy... ;-)


quote:
If you don't like what's going on, there's simple solution....VOTE.

Rest assured I'm doing THAT, AND SOME.

For the first time ever, I found a way to help out in "the cause", using my computer skill no less.

What about you? Will you be casting your vote for the Republican in the midterm election to continue your "pact with the devil's"? Or will you be throwing your vote away to yet another inconsequential "independent"? All the while continue to moan about the Democrats not doing what you could be doing to put the religious right back under their rock?

Those are questions, not statements. In case you mistaken that as another "things you didn't say"...

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4161
Location: Nashua, NH

7/2/18 5:35 AM

Sure, they're questions based on your misinformed, misinterpreted, made-up assumptions. This is no different than asking someone "When did you stop beating your wife?"

You still don't have a clue and I'm not going to waste any more of my time on you.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3200
Location: Springfield

7/2/18 7:10 AM

Attack the messenger, not the message, the tactic's paying off in spades for Trump personally.

Granting dictatorships power and prominence while they attack democracies around the globe: Fair exchange for two Supreme Court justices?

An aggregation of single-issue voters, held together by distrust and hate, willing to sell out the original intent of the fathers and the framers:

"...establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4360
Location: metro-motown-area

7/2/18 9:16 PM

Preach!!!

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6420
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/2/18 10:37 PM

"based on your misinformed, misinterpreted, made-up assumptions. "


quote:
1- The Nazi comparison is WAY over the top.
2- How do you know that nobody harassed Hitler publicly early on? Wasn't Mein Kampf essentially an enormous whine about how he was ridiculed and abused most of his life? That's what drove him to incredible heights of viciousness and cruelty once he got into power, isn't it?

What was that supposed to mean? Is that a hint that perhaps we should stop "ridicule and abuse" Trump so he doesn't get "driven to incredible heights of viciousness and cruelty once he got into power"? Oh wait, he's already in power! So be careful of his "incredible heights of viciousness and cruelty" RIGHT NOW!

Well, I certainly don't know how else to read the above. Anybody else care to help me out on how to NOT "misunderstand" it???


quote:

You still don't have a clue and I'm not going to waste any more of my time on you.


It's a wonder who's not having a clue!

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16691
Location: Portland, OR

7/2/18 10:56 PM

OK, tit/tat. Let's be done now please.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4161
Location: Nashua, NH

7/3/18 10:47 AM

I'm done with this political BS, period. It's no wonder we rarely get new members, as most of our time is spent on crap unrelated to cycling. There are plenty of other places that are more suitable for political debates, but frankly it's pretty much pointless because it never changes anyone's mind. I'm taking a cue from the (arguably smarter) conservatives here and steering clear of this nonsense from now on.

Have fun, kids!

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3200
Location: Springfield

7/3/18 11:50 AM

The reason there are no new members is because the member sign-up function doesn't work.

See for yourself: Enter the registration process here.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6420
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/3/18 11:58 AM


quote:
It's no wonder we rarely get new members, as most of our time is spent on crap unrelated to cycling.

We don't get any new members because it's next to impossible for a new member to register!

As for the non-cycling related content, it's a result of the lack of new members. To the existing old timer, everything worth talking about is already been discussed to death (that INCLUDES the politics too).

If it weren't for Sparky starting a bunch of guitars and cars and political thread daily, this site would have been quiet as a grave for the last 5 years!

But yeah, blame it on the liberal politics. That's ALWAYS the answer!

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6019
Location: Maine

7/3/18 12:47 PM

c'mon April

I think I deserve some credit for introducing threads on an ever expanding list of broken bones and other medical problems...:) No doubt soporific to most but perhaps informational to some given the geezer contingent.

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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1578

7/3/18 1:20 PM

Interesting highlight by both Dady-o and April.
Anything we can do to fix the registration issue?.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6420
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/3/18 2:16 PM

Dan! :o)

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