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More Pacenti SL23 update info.
 

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16856
Location: Portland, OR

5/18/18 12:04 PM

More Pacenti SL23 update info.

Been a while since I pissed and moaned about the V1 SL23 Pacenti.

Having to replace rear again, kills me to replace rims before the wear dot even gets a chance to show wear on the brake track! ;)

Now on the third rear rim from bed cracks now I can update. I thought maybe my ham fisted stress relieving with my bear paws may have started stress cracks on the initial build @ 125 max recommenced tension. But added washers and stayed lower on the tension on the first replacement, and did not have to stress relieve it being not a new wheel.

Wheel started doing the creeking on a ride the other day. Sure as hell more bed cracks. All leading drive side spokes. I went lower even yet on the tension, and used the tension meter with obsessively spoke by spoke on the drive side during this R&R.

My 24 spoke rear H+ Son 2x wheel is doing fine FWIW. A wheel I got on a bike, I'd never build less than 28h for my girth. My 20 spoke rear Dura Ace 7850 wheelset is just down the the wear dots and same rim height and still in service.

I bought 8 rims a while back 2015?, and have used 3 on my rear wheel. now I did get them shipped for 50.00 each, MSRP is 109.00, The good deal feel has faded significantly obviously.

3x28 spoke. I can't believe for all the crack reports on the net there has not been a recall in play. I searched again after I re-laced the third.

Love this Rim for a few reasons, hate it for a few.

Good, 18x622 nice wide road rim which a 25-28 sits out nice and feels nice.

Grooved wide brake tracks excel in braking performance.

Bad, defective in use and bears to mount tires on.

Worst: Last conversation with Kirk where he refused to warranty the first cracked rim. I told him if another cracks he can be confident I will not use his rims ever again.

I guess there is a V2 for good reason. How Pacenti gets away with not being responsible with no recall etc on the V1 is beyond me.

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2524
Location: hillbilly heaven

5/18/18 2:23 PM

I've read of poor warranty support by them multiple times so I don't even consider them when I need rims., not that i build that many wheels these days.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16856
Location: Portland, OR

5/18/18 3:56 PM

If spending money for new I am H+ Sons for now. I have some Kinlins also I've not build up yet. Rim to cobble onto the 7850 wheel when the wear dot is gone altogether. But having second thought due to 16/20.

I have built a disc set with 28h CL25 tubeless on CX-75 hubs and sold off after a few rides. I need 32x for disk, but I tried. So I also have a SL25 32x disc set. not read issues with the these disc rims.

When I got the CL25s one came scratched and I was not having it. Kirk had his guy send another, told me to keep the scratched one. But they sent a 32h instead of a 28h. So I just sharpied up the 28 scratched one, built and sold it, hate to do that for selling as new.

Then I got a second CL25 32x in the box locally for 50.00, un-realized project leftover. So that pair cost 25.00 each, like those prices better than Kirks. ;)

Am I boring the spokes outta anyone yet?

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 2939
Location: Midland, MI

5/19/18 8:10 AM

Magic rims

I'm not trying to be snarky here but every couple of years somebody comes out with a rim that somehow "breaks the barrier" of weight and durability and a bunch of people jump on it as the new, best rim out there. A bit of time goes by and then the reports of rim cracks and durability issues start appearing. That rim gets left by the side of the road and another one takes its place at the top of the pile.

But when you take a long term perspective, it's pretty hard to see where anyone has been able to produce an aluminum rim that will hold up at less than about 425 gm. When the first Velocity Aerohead rims appeared, they came in at about 410 gm and didn't hold up. As the extrusion dies wore and the rim weight rose to about 430 grm, durability issues disappeared.

Business physics allows superlight aluminum rims to be durable. Real physics doesn't. Lesson learned?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16856
Location: Portland, OR

5/19/18 10:38 AM

These are 450455gr. I think the issue is in the bed extrusion shape or lack of material. Although it looks ok at the holes. I measure 2.1mm spoke bed. Of course too hard of alloy is probably playing its part.

I choose reading about them and both in forum and on the phone w/Kirk was able to get me excited. Getting them for $50.00 shipped [and a lot of free tape] each in quantity of 8 made the decision easier. But I knew pretty early I was not selling wheels with them. Still got 4 on the wall here.


Best braking performance of any rim I have used before. So much so that I have 7900 brake calipers with 10 speed shifters and don't like other wheels on that bike brake wise as much. Cable pull mismatch and all.

The V2, brake track is the narrowest i have seen, like have to trim bottom edge of pads narrow.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4189
Location: Nashua, NH

5/20/18 8:04 AM

I've been riding the Kinlin XR-200 rims which are ~385 grams for the past few years and they've held up well. The only caveat is that you cannot go crazy on the tension when building with them. The price on them is also ridiculously cheap, only 40 bucks at bikehubstore.com. However, these are narrow rims, so some of you may not want them. They also make the XR19W, which is a couple of millimeters wider and ~405 grams for $45.

I've used their XR-270 which is 7mm deeper for 'cross/gravel wheels. They're quite strong and stiff, but weigh ~445 grams.

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3239
Location: NorCal

5/28/18 1:50 AM

The XR270 looks interesting to me as a possible replacement for my Ksyrium Equipe rear 24h rim with cracks at the eyelets.

I wonder if their quoted 19mm width is internal or external?

And I wonder where they measure ERD out to, is it the rim's nipple seating surface or to the base of the screwdriver slot?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16856
Location: Portland, OR

5/28/18 11:15 AM

XR270 is 13.9x622, Makes an open pro seem reasonable width. [snickering while typing]

The Kinlin XR26T has same ERD as the V1 SL23. And is 19x622, tubeless @ a touch more than 1/2 the price.

I have a 28h Belguim I can use if/when this last R&R cracks. Different ERD and @ 1.30 per laser/spoke, I may just try the Kinlin. Except we still have 4 left, a friend and I got the 4 ea. @ 50.00 per. He has decided not to build his 28h hubset with them for some reason. ;)

I am wearing out forged AL nips R&Ring these rims. ;O

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3239
Location: NorCal

5/28/18 11:29 AM

Thanks, 13.9mm nearly matches the Ksyrium's inside width.

The issue now is with preserving the original Ksyrium steel spokes, so do you know how Kinlin measures their ERD? I will need some luck here but there is a chance...

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16856
Location: Portland, OR

5/28/18 11:35 AM

I should mention the XR26T is also avail offset, same price. No a welded rim as far as I can ascertain.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4189
Location: Nashua, NH

5/28/18 7:58 PM

The listed ERDs on BikeHubStore.com have been pretty accurate in my experience. They also price match on Sapim spokes, but apparently Sapim requires them to list the MSRP on their site.

I suspect that Ksyrium spokes would be too long, but perhaps the rims are deeper than they look.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16856
Location: Portland, OR

5/28/18 11:23 PM

"so do you know how Kinlin measures their ERD? "

Pull one spoke and see what the spoke be depth is, measure across, the add 2x spoke bed thickness.

Maybe just see the bed depth at the valve hole...

EDIT: Oops, I thought I read how the Mavics are measured.

Now that what you actually asked sunk in, no. Am I wrong to assume from outer diameter of spoke bed?

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4189
Location: Nashua, NH

5/29/18 5:20 AM

That's the only way I've seen it done and it's the way I measure them myself. The spoke length calculator should add the necessary length to get the spokes to the top of the screwdriver slot.

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