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Hello (again) from an old timer!
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16851
Location: Portland, OR

12/13/17 6:36 PM

I still have way more cabled bikes than Di2. I just wanted to experience for myself. One of my 2 Di2 groups is in a box currently. We have lots of Shimano 8-11 speed rapid fire and road STI setup here.

I also have one bike with the Microshift 10 speed shifters which I prefer to Shimano STIs, except 7800 Dura Ace which are buttery and low resistance in use.

It is hard to not appreciate the MicroShift STI for $69.00 on sale VS the 2012 Bike shop cost [at cost as employee] of new 7800 STIs then $330.00. ;) And we still have a few triples...

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6453
Location: Westchester/NYC

12/13/17 9:00 PM


quote:
I'll have to start searching for low-mileage 10-speed shifters or take the costly plunge and upgrade to Campy 11 speed mechanical.

Jeez, I'm the only one still running 9-speed?

Surprisingly, my 20 year old low end Campy (Veloci) is still working ok'ish. Its shifting isn't exactly crisp. But it moves the derailleur to the right spot, more or less. If I think about it, it needs a nudge at some gears. But since it developed gradually over the years, my fingers had continually adopted to them as they age. So I really don't notice the extra nudge which my finger automatically did at each shift.

My cross bike is 10 years newer. The Shimano shifter was crisp when new. But I never like the shape of the hood. Nor the need to push-push for multiple gear shift. Yes, I can shift rather sloppily and the chain still end up in the right cog better than my tired and old Campy shifter. But I really can't say I care about the added advantage of being allowed to shift carelessly.

I've tried a Di2 equipped bike. It failed to knock my socks off. I like the concept of electronic shifting, especially the wireless kind. But I also expect multiple shifter locations. Frankly, I don't get the whole business of traditional "lever" in the age of electronic shifting. I would prefer a much smaller shifter and a short'ish "lever" throw. Granted, I have small hand. So others may not have the same need.

So, until that becomes available. I will continue to look for whatever the least expensive yet highly functional mechanical shifters+derailleurs cast off by others in their pursuit of newer components.

As I don't race, the less then perfect but still functional shifting really doesn't bother me. While I admire product representing great engineering, that doesn't translate into me opening my wallet to pay for the high art of engineering. As the rest of my 2 bikes are still in reasonably good conditions, I'm not motivated to upgrade just yet.

Or rather, the "new stuff" just isn't appealing enough. I'm actually a lot more motivated by say, a faster cell phone, which delivers a lot more function than...electronic shifting!

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16851
Location: Portland, OR

12/13/17 9:23 PM

I have 1, 2, 8, 9, 10, 11s. In no hurry to make the 8s and 9s into 11s. But I have a bad habit to support.

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Steve B.
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 705
Location: Long Island, NY

12/14/17 8:00 AM

I've 4 of 5 bikes on 9 speed, mostly as they are all triples.

My carbon is 11 and would be the candidate for Di2, as the frame was designed for internal wiring.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6072
Location: Maine

12/14/17 8:27 AM

e- shifting

I have everything from a lever operated front derailleur to SRAM e-Tap, including several bikes with Chorus mechanical 10 or 11 speed. The e-Tap is fine, but I don't consider it any better than the Chorus mechanical. In fact, I think the Chorus is a bit quicker.

I could get either on a new bike, but no way I'd bother to upgrade an existing bike to electronic. My advice to Wayne is to put his time and $ elsewhere regarding upgrades.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16851
Location: Portland, OR

12/14/17 11:33 AM

Nothing wrong with 7800, I think Wayne said he was sporting. In fact 7800 is so smooth and buttery it is among my favs. But if you like a strong tactile feel, 7800 ain't it.

I do not recall if in the thread so far he was having his PT wheel upgraded to 11s capable along with the innards upgrade. I know my 2.4+ hub is not up-gradable to 11s. Some can be upped to ANT that can't be upped to 11s, my 2.4+ is one of those.

BTW Wayne. While 'getting' parts, get either new Shimano brake pad inserts, or Kool-Stops. The old Shimano pad were not really good when new. A decade of drying out will have made them rim eaters and the braking performance will be shit. Even more shit than originally, never like those older Shimano pads personally. Kool-Stop Salmons are near requisite for the PNW anyway. ;)

Aldo, if you are sticking with 10s STI, you can use an Ultegra 6700 GS rear derailleur and a 32 tooth cog rear, if your ego can handle it. ;)

If you do change out the crank for a compact, the 11s Shimano front shifting can be considered a definite improvement in shifting performance IMO. 6800 will fit in a 7800 BB and you can get 34/50 or 36/52. I mixed chainrings on my Di2 with 34/52, the Di2 front shifting is very deterministic as to work fine.

The GS rear cage compensates for the over-spec capacity with the 34/52 mix [2 over]. Not tried that cabled but do think you would see a shifting performance issue probably with 36/52 and cabled. Di2 takes no prisoners when you hit the button, it IS going to shift up period.

My Original Strong can take a 30 tooth max with a 7800 SS derailleur. Thus if you bike has the Breezer style dropout likely circa 2000 your should do also.

On a side note: My newer disc Strong has a replaceable DR hanger and Carl supplied two different length hangers in case I wanted to go Mega range at some point. Yada

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Doug Turney
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 307
Location: South East CT

3/19/18 10:57 AM

Another returning cycling forum member

I might not be as well remembered as the infamous Wayne but I too am returning to the forum after many years of being away. Nice to see some names I recognize still posting. While reading some posts I found this one so I thought I would use it to mark my return.

I posted mostly back in the 1998 to 2002 timeframe. Now that I typed that I realize how long ago that is. I was in my 30's then, now I'm in my 50's.

The reason for coming back to the site is that after about 5 years off the bike I have the desire to get back to riding. My twins are now 21 and my youngest is 14 so I find I have more time now. Plus the extra 20 pounds is also a driving factor to getting back on the bike. I have no real reason why I stopped riding but rather a bunch of small things like family and other interests.

I find it interesting all the other activities people have posted that they are interested in and how my interests also align. One of my other interests that pulled me away from cycling was my involvement with my Miata and autocrossing. Then I rediscovered my interest in motocross and photography. These two have combined and lead me to developing my future retirement business. I've started my own photography studio which focuses on sports and commercial work. I now photograph the Monster Energy Supercross series for a Northern Ireland website and have for the last 3 years. This year I've photographed the Anaheim, San Diego, Oakland, Tampa, Atlanta events and still have the Seattle, Boston, and Las Vegas events to cover. I photographed the CX Nationals in Hartford CT. I still have a few years to go before I retire from my engineering job so the photography work is really a second job at this time.

If anyone cares you can see some of my cycling photos at studioa17.com

It has been so long since I last rode I can't even remember how many cogs I have on my bikes. I think I stopped at 10 cogs with a 40/53 up front????? I don't even know what the modern day "standard" is. I'm sure I'll learn which will drive my desire to buy something new. Great, nothing like getting back into an expensive hobby.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16851
Location: Portland, OR

3/19/18 11:53 AM

Welcome back!

We are all just as good, if not better, on helping member spend money for new go fast bikes, just ask. Although on average you can guess the go fast trending among us...
😂

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6072
Location: Maine

3/19/18 4:38 PM

Welcome back Doug

I do recall you, and it doesn't seem as long ago as 2002. Get those pedals turning!!

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2524
Location: hillbilly heaven

3/19/18 4:46 PM

Welcome back! I see a $15,000 electronic shifting bike in your future. That's penny ante compared to camera stuff.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4188
Location: Nashua, NH

3/20/18 7:45 AM

The modern standard is NO standard

Welcome back!

If your current bike has 10 speed on it, I'd sit tight for now. A lot of us are still riding it and parts are still pretty readily available. Take your time to assess your needs and survey the market before updating your gear. It may take a while to absorb all of the changes.

What has changed is that the current ubiquitous road setup is 2x11, rather than 2x10. While racing gearing is still 53/39 in front,"compact" cranks with 50/34 chainrings have come to dominate the rest of the market. Apparently the industry has finally realized that mere mortals have no use for a 53x11 top gear. "Semi-compact" 52/36 cranks have recently appeared, as have "sub-compact" 48/32 and 46/30 cranks aimed at the gravel/adventure riding market.

Speaking of which, gravel/adventure bikes are the hot item in the market these days. Many of us have discovered the pleasure of fatter tires that allow us to explore off-pavement with dropped bar bikes. The bikes are an evolution of CX bikes, with more tire clearance (~40mm), lower bottom brackets, longer wheelbases and more stable handling, plus accommodations for racks, bags, fenders and such, in some cases. These bikes often come equipped with 1x11 drivetrains and 1x12 is actually on the market now.

Both passive and active suspension are now available on road bikes. The passive systems are generally frames with vertical flex for comfort - but that are stiff laterally and torsionally for efficiency - sometimes combined with flexible seatposts for more compliance (the true potential of carbon fiber is finally being realized). Active suspension systems include a variety of approaches, such as pivots at the seat tube/top tube junction and head tube, elastomers in seatstays, springs in headsets and flexing stems (deja vu).

The current "standard" width in road tires is 25mm, with more bikes being capable of handling 28mm or wider rubber, mainly because someone figured out that they have less rolling resistance, in addition to being more comfortable. Rims have gotten wider too, since it was learned that they're actually more aerodynamic when properly designed. Who knew?

There are now dozens of variations of bottom brackets and headsets, making DIY work a nightmare.

Quick releases on wheels are rapidly being replaced by thru-axles, especially on disc-brake equipped bikes, which are becoming common - if not yet dominant - in the road market.

Electronic shifting is everywhere and wireless shifting actually works now. In an interesting detour from the electronic advance, Rotor has introduced hydraulic shifting.

The MTB market is at least as crazy, but I won't go there.

Welcome to our Brave New World!

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Doug Turney
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 307
Location: South East CT

3/20/18 11:10 AM

Thanks everyone

Brian,

From your post it appears the cycling manufactures have identified their market is aging.

Semi-compacts that still let the rider believe they can spin an 11 but drop to 50/34.

Wider tires for adventure yet provides a smoother/softer ride.

Suspension on rode bikes.

Yep, it looks like my older age riding is going to very comfortable.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16851
Location: Portland, OR

3/20/18 12:01 PM

"it looks like my older age riding is going to very comfortable."

Don't get too comfortable with the concept, it is relative to aging/aching no matter what. ;)

I have utilized most manor of augmentations. Not to mention getting a Trek Domane with the ISO decoupling tech as they coined it.

I also have a few anti shock stems, carbon seat posts shimmed down to 25.4 for more flexy operation. Have a Syntace P6 HiFlex post and the Specialized McLaren designed CGR Paris Roubaix inspired/designed post. Or just ones that are deemed flexy in the tests of carbon posts, etc.

Have bought handlebars deemed the most flexy in the published tests. Use tires both with latex tubes and tube-less that sit on wide rims @ 28.5 to 32mm. For road use, to be clear. I like 40-42mm for non paved roads. The industry knows and bigger tire clearances are prominent on road bikes, and especially 'gravel/adventure' offerings you'll find.

So, I spend 20 years wanting and getting stiffer stuff. They finally make frames more stiff than could ever be needed for amateurs with 90mm wide BB shells and 1-1/2" lower headset crowns/bearings. I needed that shit 20 years ago, now I spend money and effort to undo the effects of what I always wanted. ;)

That commentary may help put some prospective on things.

On a side note, the Trek Domane ownership here is not few, but many probably. FWIW.

I'd add that if you have not been on the road on a bike while GUI/Smart Phones have evolved to current use/evolution, take this point seriously.
It is a whole new distracted word to be defensive of out there. I won't road ride without a glasses mirror, or a bar mounted one. Mandatory IMO are high lumen front and rear LED blinkies, and bright color appointments. And I mean 'Safety Orange' level shells etc.

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13ollocks
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 413
Location: Chapel Hill, NC

3/20/18 5:23 PM

Another one

Haven't been here in many years - the last time I recall posting here was in the early 2000's. Cycling has continued unabated, even as forum posting has wained. I recognize most of the names, though

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Marc N.
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 448
Location: Israel

3/21/18 12:25 AM

Welcome back

Seeing how this is an aging community, it`s good to know that when someone returns after an extended absence, we remember him. At least among the growing list of aliments, Alzheimer isn`t one of them. :-)
Sparky and Brian basically hit on everything, so I have nothing to add except to second Sparky`s comment on lights and being seen.

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DPotter
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 950
Location: Portland, Maine

3/23/18 7:11 AM

Hi Wayne!

I hope to start riding again this year. Just have to get off my big butt.

I am promising myself a new ride at the end of the season if I can get myself into the habit of a daily ride again.

Good luck!

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Anthony Smith
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 840
Location: Ohio

3/23/18 8:46 AM

8/9/10 to 11

The conversion is no big deal really. You just need to dremel off a small bit of the inner cog stop on the cassette body.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4188
Location: Nashua, NH

3/23/18 10:15 AM

Or if you ride Campy, 9, 10 & 11 speed cassettes all work on the same hub.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16851
Location: Portland, OR

3/23/18 11:04 AM

>8/9/10 to 11

Except Shimano actually made an 11s cassette that fits the 8/9/10 freehub. HG800-11, you gotta want low gears [I certainly do] as it is 11-34 only.

But fits every Shimano freehub after and including hyperglide I believe except any hub that does not accept the 11 cog.

My "[I certainly do]" comment brings forth another modern accommodation in gearing for the aging cyclist;
Mid cage rear derailleurs, and now Shadow for road [R8000]. 32-34 low cogs on cassettes. And not only very common 34/50 chainsets, but 30/46 aftermarket road chainsets. I am running a 28/42 XT MTN double on my 2000 Strong frame.

Yes, when you pass 60, you may well appreciate passing 30 gear inches on your road bike. ;) For me, this allows mostly for any hill while keeping HRM out of zone 4, except maybe double digit grades...

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4188
Location: Nashua, NH

3/25/18 7:39 AM

I love the 46x30 on my gravel rig

I haven't switched to it on the road yet, but when the time comes that I need lower gearing, I'll switch the crank so I can continue to use closely-spaced cassettes, which I find to be more efficient and comfortable than wide-ratio cassettes, at least on the road.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16851
Location: Portland, OR

3/25/18 10:04 AM

Wide ratio cassettes on road for me ate only an issue when I ride with fast groups. And i have stopped riding with the club again. Too many waits for ambulances, thankfully not for myself.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4188
Location: Nashua, NH

3/25/18 1:14 PM

You need to find a better club!

Some of our club members have gotten badly hurt, but it's been when they're out riding solo. There have been a few incidents on club rides I've attended (I was one of them), but they've they haven't been more serious than a loss of pride and a bit of skin.

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8310
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

3/25/18 4:28 PM

Join the crowd

I hardly ever login here anymore.

My interests have changed since to speak.

I still work out, run, row, hike and ride but not much riding these days. I just kinda lost the bug.

So these days, I dabble in the shooting sports, to include the cult like Cola Warrior game. Google it up. and 2/3 Gun.

I had my one year follow up (late) Friday, I am good to go and so is my daughter.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16851
Location: Portland, OR

3/25/18 6:41 PM

Cycling or not Erik, you are welcome as far as I am concerned. It will probably come back at some point. ;)

Glad to read good news on the follow up!

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16851
Location: Portland, OR

3/25/18 6:42 PM

"find a better club!"

No aware of any here... should I move again? ;)

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