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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6094
Location: Westchester/NYC

9/15/17 1:00 PM

JS, I don't think you get my point!

I know what they CAN do. But it's not clear what the consumers can do, other than "freezing" their credit file for the rest of one's life!

But maybe that's what all 140 million people SHOULD do. That would basically make the entire credit reporting industry "freeze up". Then, only then, the industry will do something to secure their data!

p.s.
Checking their web site, I got the respond that I'm supposedly NOT affected. But I have very little faith in THAT result! On the other hand, since I don't see any practical defense, it really doesn't matter.

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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1026
Location: South of Heaven

9/15/17 2:00 PM

To all: I finished placing a security free, for free, on all 3 experien/equifax/trans union, using their respective websites. No certified mail required.

April: You are correct. I don't get your "point!" I don;t think anyone else has, either.
To be blunt, you have a serious deficiency with your writing and reading comprehension. Brian and others have mentioned such prior to you on this forum. From the other person's perspective, like mine, it is quite vexxing. I'm sorry for you it is such a blindspot.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6094
Location: Westchester/NYC

9/15/17 2:24 PM

JS:

Frankly, I don't much care whether you or Brian gets my point. If you do, great. If not, it doesn't bother me. Why? Because we differ in the basic value sense so much, there's no way we would EVER agree on anything anyway. More over, discussing something when one doesn't share the same value never lead to any constructive outcome for either party.

It's only when you pretend you know all the answer, like in this case, I called you out on it. But I wasn't trying to convince you on anything, merely questioning a fundamental flaw in your "solution", which you failed to address.

You can't freeze your credit file for life. That really is the elephant in the room.

But everybody dance around it pretending they don't see it. Don't tell me smart people like you didn't consider that! (btw, it's not a rhetorical comment, but even smart people are known to have "blind spots", as you put it)

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15814
Location: Portland, OR

9/15/17 2:59 PM

I think one thing should be clear enough. Smart credit worthy people will freeze their credit. What percent of them is unclear nor would I wager to guess. End result is less spending on a scale I also would not wager to guess, but suffice to say it will be in the opposite direction as is conducive to bolstering our economy.

Thus I will ask again, do we have Putin to thank for this?

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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1026
Location: South of Heaven

9/15/17 6:28 PM

Yeah but no but

If you do not care, you would not have replied multiple times directly to my responses, including exclamation marks in your reply.

It's very Vicky Pollard-esque


Little Britian's Vicky Pollard

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6094
Location: Westchester/NYC

9/15/17 7:02 PM

I asked for a suggestion of EFFECTIVE credit protection, you answered "freeze it".

I pointed out you need to freeze it for life. You have no answer.

(if I were the hacker, I'd wait for 6 months, after the hysteria is forgotten by everyone. And after half of the people HAVE TO unfreeze their credit report for all those increasingly wide spread use of the credit report. They can wait 6 months, or 6 YEARS, or even 16 years! )

Clearly you haven't even freeze it before this incident, or you wouldn't be freezing only NOW! So you aren't quite as smart (see sparky's post above). You only read a few blog post after the news, and starting to throw it around as if you know something others don't.

So, whatever you think you are, it's a sham. And I take pleasure to point it out.

If you consider my having fun at your expense is your definition of my "care", be my guest.


And I foresee many such opportunity for me in the future. In that sense, I do "care": I do care not to lose a source of fun.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15814
Location: Portland, OR

9/15/17 7:24 PM

Do I need to start a new thread that might focus on the subject substantively without the collateral of personality tit for tatting?

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Springfield

9/15/17 8:22 PM

Freezing is a great tool that gives individuals control, but it's binary and where people have to pay out of pocket for an industry crisis I count it as the fourth way the provider profits from its own incompetence. (Preemptive stock sales, additional data for 'free' monitoring, lawsuit protection and the standard freeze charge.)

The company shouldn't profit from the event, in the short term at least. It needs to lead the reform effort. The executives don't need to worry since they exchanged stock parachutes before the disclosure.

Poisoning the data gathered through the breech is the first step. They know what's been copied, what to change in their set to invalidate the copy and how to approach the fix internally and to the public.

This is Elizabeth Warren territory.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5782
Location: Maine

9/15/17 8:55 PM

Can they hack a freeze?

Hackers can get into the highest levels of government security and Angela Merkle's cell phone. Equifax seems both incompetent and dishonest. Why is a freeze foolproof?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15814
Location: Portland, OR

9/15/17 8:59 PM

"Why is a freeze foolproof?"

We'll find out after they collect 30 billion in fee revenue for all the freezes...

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6094
Location: Westchester/NYC

9/15/17 9:20 PM


quote:
Do I need to start a new thread that might focus on the subject substantively without the collateral of personality tit for tatting?

It IS the subject. To freeze or not to freeze. How long to freeze. The downside of a freeze. Can the freeze be hacked...

Fundamentally, does the freeze even work at all vs "the freeze is the cure all! how dare anyone question its validity".

The freeze proponent has no answer to those question. So it sounds just like a rehash of advertisement for the very company that lost the data in the first place!

Frankly, why would anyone trust that very company to safe guard your data the 2nd time around?

Right, because we have no other options. So "do something" even though it's quite unlikely it would make any difference.

Last edited by April on 9/16/17 7:24 AM; edited 1 time in total

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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1026
Location: South of Heaven

9/16/17 5:39 AM

FREE security freeze for all 3 credit checking companies

Hey Sparky...pay attention..as I previously wrote..I did not pay anything for the freeze.. as in nada..nothing..nill..gratis, $0.

As for its effectiveness, well consider your options, I presented plenty in the links provided. I understand the need to kvetch, but investing a little time reading will be helpful and one will come to a rational conclusion. Just saying.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Springfield

9/16/17 6:22 AM

Was that a rhetorical question Dan?

Rhetorical or prescient?
NY Times reporting that freeze PINs are not randomized.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6094
Location: Westchester/NYC

9/16/17 7:46 AM

I'll ask the same question again "Will you trust the same company who lost your data in the first place, and give them MORE power over your personal data?"

Never mind we never consented to our personal data to be collected, warehoused, and sold for profit in the first place.

I agree with Dan "This is Elizabeth Warren territory."

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15814
Location: Portland, OR

9/16/17 10:04 AM

"Hey Sparky...pay attention..as I previously wrote"

No, I got it. Unfortunately for me in OR, one of the states that the legislature allowed for fees for the privilege, your not paying is fine for you. ;)

Question is, and I will update, will I have to pay 3 times? One for each Experian, E_Fax, TransUnion.

https://www.transunion.com/credit-freeze/credit-freeze-information-by-state

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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1026
Location: South of Heaven

9/16/17 10:54 AM

I was expecting to pay, too, but when I went to their reapective websites, it endes up being free. It was a surprise, for sure. Even if you have to pay, it is a nominal cost and well worth the cautionary measure.

Average identity theft victim spens 200 hours of personal time over 6 months time to fix their accounts .

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15814
Location: Portland, OR

9/16/17 11:44 AM

No doubt.

Also for a couple, 2 SNs, 3x $10.00 on and off. Managing which ones to turn off on for what things you might decide to finance. We only ever use zero interest stuff, but have used this mostly for HomeDepot, w/new house end of 2011, appliances etc. but pretty much done. Yada

It can really wind up being a PITA, but certainly nothing like repairing your credit from a heist, or like audits. Which I have dealt with personally.

Just time wasted on not riding you have no choice but to attend. ;)

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3773
Location: Nashua, NH

9/16/17 12:14 PM

I looked into freezes and fraud alerts again yesterday

Whether you have to pay for a freeze/unfreeze is still apparently a state-by-state thing, as it was indicated that I'd have to pay $10 x 3 for each change. I put a fraud alert on my account in the hope that perhaps the freeze fees will go away shortly, considering that legislation for that was introduced in Congress yesterday (9/15) by Elizabeth Warren. It will also force them to refund any fees collected in the wake of the Equifax debacle. I suspect that this is going to pass with minimal opposition, given current circumstances.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/09/15/did-you-pay-to-freeze-your-own-credit-this-bill-would-refund-you-and-ban-the-fees/

BTW April, waiting a few months before attempting to exploit stolen information is exactly what these thieves do. Nothing new there.

Regarding the effectiveness of a freeze, it prevents anyone from accessing your credit report, so unless a company is willing to grant credit to someone without seeing a credit report, nobody is going to be able to do anything with your information in that regard. Any company who did so in the face of such an obvious "red flag" would be legally responsible for any fraudulent charges, so there's no upside to taking that risk. It doesn't mean that the thieves couldn't wreak havoc with the information in another manner, but since their motivation is typically financial and criminals are lazy, it's more likely that they'll just move on to the next potential victim on the list.

As for the potential issue with "freeze PINs", the solution seems glaringly simple; change it. Make it as long and complicated as allowed. Done.

Frankly, my biggest concerns is with someone filing a fraudulent tax reture in my name. That problem has not be addressed AFAIK.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15814
Location: Portland, OR

9/16/17 12:27 PM

" It doesn't mean that the thieves couldn't wreak havoc with the information in another manner, but since their motivation is typically financial and criminals are lazy , it's more likely that they'll just move on to the next potential victim on the list. "

Zero sum anyway.

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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1026
Location: South of Heaven

9/16/17 1:38 PM

Brian, you are correct, sort of, with filing tax returns...where t differs is that there is protective measures that one may take advantage of if they have been a victim of such in the past, ANd only those who have been victims...which to your point I think is asinine. Hopefully Congress will address that glaring problem with the IRS.

My guess is, based on my recent experince, the 3 credit firms have waived the freeze fee for all, preemptively.

Can anyone else confirm? As I mentioned before, I was expecting to pay for all 3, but was not charged to do the freeze. Unfreezing may differ...

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3773
Location: Nashua, NH

9/16/17 3:56 PM

I just went to Transunion...

...and they're still trying to charge for security freezes. They do offer a free "locking" service that's more secure than a fraud alert and more flexible than a freeze, but their volume is so high that it may take several attempts to sign up for locking.

Experian still tried to charge me $10 for a freeze.

Seriously, do you really think that they will voluntarily stop milking this cash cow unless Congress makes them stop?

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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1026
Location: South of Heaven

9/16/17 4:40 PM

That is what I selected at transunion...it is a security freeze that you can toggle on/off yourself which I think is a big plus.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3773
Location: Nashua, NH

9/16/17 8:42 PM

It sounds like great option...

...but it's only offered by Transunion and only for one's Transunion account. It doesn't affect your accounts at the other two agencies.

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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1026
Location: South of Heaven

9/17/17 7:20 AM

That's correct and that self service security freeze on/off is most ideal and for FREE (but niggled with ads). The other two did not have such offering. Even if you have to pay, as vexxing as that it is and the time needed to do so, I would really advise you do so.

As you point out, their websites are a little sluggish due to a big demand/server load. I would do so an at uncommon/unpopular hour to make it a quicker process.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6094
Location: Westchester/NYC

9/17/17 9:41 PM


quote:
Seriously, do you really think that they will voluntarily stop milking this cash cow unless Congress makes them stop?

Seriously, think about it.

The main business of any credit bureau is ... to sell credit info to companies that want them. They charge an arm and a leg for every megabyte of those data.

So let's suppose 1/2 of the people who are affected by the Equifax breach, which is about 1/2 of the population, followed through with their freeze request, for free or for a fee. That's about 1/4 of the entire population that has their credit files freeze.

All of a sudden the credit file these credit bureau can sell are decreased by 20%. So does the fees they can charge any company that wants to buy them!!!

If you think the fee for freezing the credit files are cash cow, the fee they LOSE from not able to sell these credit files are ... cash elephants!

Never mind free freeze, even with a charge, they can't afford to have a large percentage of population freeze their credit files!

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