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Dirty Talk - 29er / 27.5 / Boost
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/26/17 10:30 AM

Dirty Talk - 29er / 27.5 / Boost

Considering a 27.5er frame to replace 29er frame.

Gary Paragon 29er is my main 'MTN' steed/squeeze, and I still have the steel Stumpjumper 26er w/SID, but just do not ride it.

I had built a 27.5 tubeless set of wheels [XT level] originally for the Strong CX. But I went 40mm TCS Nano 700c instead. Low BB and the 650b, too close for me, but I wanted to try it out. Banged the pedals too much off pave.

I stuck the 650b set on my Gary Paragon and never took them off. Wondering if a 27.5 specific frame would be worth the trouble/expense over just rolling the Gary as is. [Shifters getting a little long in the tooth]
The Paragon in it's favor is quite light for a beast, 26.5 with nothing special wheels worth mentioning. Winding up heavier not of interest. It has a Reba SL which is light and good enough for me.

Anyone running 27.5 on their 29er, or do anything similar.

On that note, what of the Plus and boost options.

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2625
Location: Canberra, Australia

8/26/17 10:03 PM

In the "gravel" bike space, quite a lot of frames are being marketed as being suitable for either wheel size. The Kinesis Tripster ATR that I put together a few months ago was sold as being suitable for either 700c with up to 40mm tyres with fenders or 45mm without fenders, or 650b with up to 50mm tyres. I went with 650b wheels with 48mm tyres, as I can fit fenders and there is still bags of clearance between fender and tyre.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/26/17 10:15 PM

Seems like 29er have some BB drop as compared to the 27.5 and certainly the 26ers.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/27/17 2:21 PM

The Gary 29er got some 650b luv today... Bigly broken pave road for 4 miles to some hard packed quad ripped earth and back. The 4 miles was all up and mostly granny going... 4 miles back to the car was big ring softpedal with some disc grinding for the switchbacks... ;)

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/27/17 2:49 PM

Just calculated, 1500' in 5 miles. 1300 or so in the first 3.5. No wonder I was sucking eggs. ;)

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2815
Location: hillbilly heaven

8/27/17 3:30 PM

It seems to me that bb height would be an issue changing from a 29 to to 27.5 wheels. The bb change just seems too great to me.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

8/27/17 4:09 PM

It depends on the tire sizes

If you're going from a narrow 700c tire to a much wider 650b, the BB height won't change much. That's typically what the dual-size bike manufacturers stipulate, such as going from a 700c 'cross tire to an MTB tire. However, that doesn't sound like what Sparky is doing.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/27/17 4:20 PM

Overall today showed me it is going to work probably. I did take a little sag outta my shock though, and compression higher so less diving.

The 2.1 650b tires sit about the same as 42C Speed rides do on the 700c, which sit out at 39mm [all my MTN rims are 23-5mm wide]

So BB drop is more when compared to running 2.3-2.4 29er wheels/tires. Which I tried and the bike was tall and clumsy.

So 2.1-650b VS 1.95 700c depending on what tires, is really not much of a drop if at all or slight? Still running 175 cranks and not much tech MTN trails for this old fart.

Now I did have trouble with these 650b-2.1 on the Strong Green machine @ 8CM Drop.

Today I went down a dirt with rocks popping out for a short jaunt. Leaving my CX riding partner on the gravel road for a few minutes. He actually headed in after me, but stopped when the gardens got dense. I caught him on the return 1/4 way to where I U turned.

I sliced and diced without pedal striking, but was practically track standing a few places.

Really enojoyed being out in the woods. Getting a little tired of close or near close calls every road ride. Almost got t-bone on the Domane Friday by a nut flying on a SS with no brakes where I was on the main MUT and he was crossing it without slowing... Fate was 1 second off, I tapped the brakes and he flew by my front wheel with less comfortable space than I prefer. ;) But a miss is a miss. Just a get a lot of near ones anymore...

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

8/28/17 5:19 AM

I'm becoming disenchanted with MUTs

Frankly, I find them far more dangerous than riding the roads. Additionally, the one closest to me has gotten really rough, with root growth underneath creating sections that are covered with sharply raised cracks all the way across it. There are sections with odd round growths pushing upward as much as 3". Between that and the inconsiderate, the oblivious and the just plain stupid people who I encounter on it, it's not worth the hassle anymore. After riding it yesterday, I couldn't get off it fast enough. That will probably be my last time until they repave it, which probably won't happen soon, if ever.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3234
Location: Midland, MI

8/28/17 8:17 AM

Proper design and construction


quote:
root growth underneath


This is a common problem. There somehow is an assumption that you don't need to provide a proper substrate to pave a MUT, nor do you need to put down a thick enough layer of asphalt. It's all about cost savings and the result is a path that becomes unpleasant for walking, let alone riding a bike.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/28/17 9:37 AM

This main 20 something mile MUT is good surface 99%. The problems are mostly homeleds camps and debris and seotic smell nearvthe camps. They pick a spot to use for shit/piss and it is gross. Breath holding etc.

This day had some real challenges not usual. The Hood to Coast run went along the entire section. The shorter runs had idiots clogging sections at those finishes. Copd there just over and over telling them to make room.

Then there are the morons that have to run on the oposding edge...

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/28/17 10:06 AM

On a lighter subject...

Should I?

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

8/28/17 2:45 PM

How much?

Really... it matters!

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/28/17 4:12 PM

Trade Domane. I will get the RSL 60 Domane next year..

EDIT: not happening.


Re: TAX, i will just keep riding the Paragon, not interested in anything over 30lb.


Last edited by Sparky on 8/29/17 10:09 AM; edited 1 time in total

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3345
Location: NorCal

8/29/17 8:39 AM

I ride a medium, but there are some really low prices just now on Amazon for the better versions of Mongoose Tyax 27.5" PLUS bikes in large and XL.
Just do an Amazon search for Mongoose Tyax alone, addingmore keywords doesn't seem to work and all the best deals are on the first one or two pages.

Pacific seems to behaving a money shortage right now, first pulling their support from the pro Cannondale team, now blowing out decent bikes on Amazon.

The Tyax bikes are quite inexpensive to begin with, and some of these are like 70% off with free shipping on what particular sizes need clearancing.

I always appreciate greater ground clearance here, so if anything I will boost travel and tire width to improve matters down at the pedals.

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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1690

8/29/17 8:56 AM

Just curious, what bikes are they blowing out on Amazon?.

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3345
Location: NorCal

8/29/17 2:07 PM

Mongose Tyax PLUS bike with hydraulic discs, slack trail geometry tapered aluminum frame, 2.8" WTB tires on tubeless rims.
Size small is under $300!

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/29/17 2:40 PM

The Suntour fork on the Tyax Expert is 5.3 lbs if my googling was fruitful. I think my Reba SL is 3.6. The Tyax Expert is not in the $300 range, and I am seeing 36lb googling, but no size was mentioned. But I bet when we talk plus and boost wheel/tires we are adding maybe 3 lbs just on wheels/rubber.

Mongoose claimed weight for the highest end is 31.7, but size not specified either.

I am running 2.1 650b on the Gary 29er on 25mm rims, that is as plus as I am likely to get. ;) I have always run 45c FireCX and the like. I still have Klein Death Claws [grips?] 1.75 on the some wheels for the Stumpjumper.

Point is, I don't see me being open to Plus/Boost due to my paranoia of rotating mass. ;)

I will say this, on that 4-5 mile climb up that ridge Sunday, I got to wishing I had my Speed Ride 42mm folding tires and not the Kenda 2.1_650b... But I survived it.


Last edited by Sparky on 8/29/17 2:46 PM; edited 2 times in total

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3345
Location: NorCal

8/29/17 2:41 PM

This one is decently equipped and is 30% off today at Nashbar. It's higher grade all around and with thru axles:

http://www.nashbar.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10053_10052_595132_-1___204686


Here's the Amazon PLUS bike for $260.71 in small only, but with hydr brakes and a very good frame, free shipping:
https://www.amazon.com/Mongoose-Sport-Wheel-Black-Medium/dp/B01LW0AHBN/ref=sr_1_12?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1504039342&sr=1-12&keywords=tyax&th=1&psc=1

Here's a slightly different Large one for just $441 free shipping.
https://www.amazon.com/Mongoose-Mens-Tyax-Expert-Wheel/dp/B01LW7R8F8/ref=pd_sbs_468_1?_encoding=UTF8&refRID=VZJQK4D28GPTKN5M8GV8&th=1&psc=1

Here's a decent 29er in Small for $314!
https://www.amazon.com/Mongoose-Mens-Tyax-Expert-Wheel/dp/B01LW1KMT5/ref=pd_sbs_468_3?_encoding=UTF8&refRID=K5RRZAG5PYMSAAAH07P9&th=1&psc=1

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/29/17 2:54 PM

The reviews of that 900.00 Nashbar do not site weight as a con. in fact surprised by weight was mentioned.

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3345
Location: NorCal

8/29/17 4:57 PM

As I mentioned, Ruddy is a more upscale line than Tyax Supa+ , which uses a 141mm QR version of Boost spacing instead of thru-axles to hit lower price points.

I've used both 141QR and 135QR with mild PLUS tire widths to good effect, with these two also hitting the scales at 45lbs and 39lbs, respectively. These are for getting more of a workout out of your ride, not for speed competitions, though competition with other trail users is still possible of course. These are the really low-end ones from Kmart and Walmart, no hydraulic brakes, fork damping or tapered headtubes, but with upgrades here and there as needed over the past 18mos or so.



[/b]

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/29/17 5:16 PM

"with these two also hitting the scales at 45lbs and 39lbs, respectively. "

I am sure not ready to go there. My Paragon is now 27.6 with CrankBros Pedals, a USE susp seatpost, 2.1 650b XT wheels, with the Old School Scoot AT3 with two heavy MTN grip sets. [extra gummy set on the bar ends] That weight includes the seat bag with a tube in it and water bottle cage. Which reminds me, I need to take the 29er tube outta there for a 26er tube...

This is really why I have not been overly motivated to retire it, except retiring it from 29er to 650b maybe. ;)

I think the Paragon could actually fit some 2.8/650b if I ever fall into a QR Plus wheelset for 135mm to borrow or steal.

Thanks for posting the fatties and chiming in on the subject.

Seems weird talking about bikes. ;)

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

8/29/17 5:35 PM

though competition with other trail users is still possible of course

I'll bet you leave some pretty disheartened newcomers behind on that Huffy.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/29/17 6:10 PM

One thing for sure. Running 3" tubeless tires on 45-50mm wide rims @ 25-30lb should negate too stiff frames. Aluminum should not be a detractor there...

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3345
Location: NorCal

8/29/17 9:04 PM

Since mine are hardtails, it's all about the tires and suspension post. I run tubes and still ride with 23psi for my 140# rider weight.
Last week, after replacing both of the Huffy's calipers and adding a cyclometer, I took an out-and-back ride on the local, rocky Confluence Trail along the American River. As I headed in the upstream direction and reached the turnaround point, a group of five riders was coming toward me on the popular "downhill run", really almost level but with enough drop to carry as much speed as one dares.
So I flipped my U-turn and worked to find a rhythm within a conservative speed range. Two of the guys were quickly on my tail and I let them pass one by one, then did my best to maintain a good pace.
A mile or two later I was back to the starting point by the confluence, but two of the riders had apparently pinch-flatted, including one of the guys who had passed me. My tires had some luck on their side and the new brakes helped a lot, but hey, this Huffy works pretty good for a hardtail with old-school geometry and a kickstand.

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