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Shimano CS-HG800 Ultegra Cassette
 

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17844
Location: Portland, OR

8/13/17 10:46 PM

Shimano CS-HG800 Ultegra Cassette

Looks like this 11 Speed cassette may fit 8/9/10 freehubs.

It is an 11-34 cassette which comes with a 1.85mm spacer to fit road hubs. I guess the 11s MTN freehubs are wider than 11s road freehubs.

Question is will it work with a RD-5800/6800 GS road rear DR.

Specifications:
Application: Road, Cross Country
Gearing: 11-speed
Range: 11-34t
Freehub Body Compatibility: 8-/9-/10-speed Shimano MTB/Road, 11-speed Shimano MTB, 11-speed* Shimano Road
Sprocket Material: steel

* with 1.85 mm spacer

"for anyone with older “10-speed” wheels, this is bigger-than-two-teeth news. The new 11-34t cassette means you can grab your old 10/9/8-speed road or mountain bike wheels and use them on your 11-speed drivetrain"

from here: https://www.cxmagazine.com/shimano-ultegra-r8000-r8070-di2-mechanical-disc-hydraulic-first-look-cyclocross-gravel

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: NorCal

8/14/17 5:08 PM

"...I guess the 11s MTN freehubs are wider than 11s road freehubs..."

It's the other way around, the larger 11s cassettes can overhang the freehub body toward the spokes, since the larger big cog moves the derailer closer to the rim where greater spoke clearance exists.
So the spider of these larger 11s cassettes is recessed inward from the face of the largest cog, allowing it to fit on the shorter mtb or 10s freehub body.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17844
Location: Portland, OR

8/14/17 5:14 PM

Well, I ordered one. So I will report...

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2486
Location: Canberra, Australia

8/15/17 1:00 AM


quote:
The new 11-34t cassette means you can grab your old 10/9/8-speed road or mountain bike wheels and use them on your 11-speed drivetrain

The 11s MTB cassettes also fit 8/9/10 speed freehubs. My wife has an 11-40 XT 11s cassette on a an old wheel built with 9s Dura-Ace 7700 hub.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17844
Location: Portland, OR

8/15/17 7:37 AM

My fav hubsets. I still have a 7700 wheelset and even a 7403 in service. And a 7700 hubset in the drawer. Suckers spin like silk.

So I must have misunderstood the spacer use, road vs mtn for the hg800 cassette.

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: NorCal

8/15/17 11:37 AM

I still find no spec's or photos to inform what the 11-34t R800 cassette ratios are.

Are the yet available?

And yeah, the 7700 hubset is a work of art, maybe the best-ever hubset that wouldn't look too out of place on a vintage bike and which can be subtly respaced to 128mm width if needed.
The ti freehub body is cool, but saves relatively little weight actually, 13g iir as compared to Ultegra's.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17844
Location: Portland, OR

8/15/17 4:48 PM

But better Ti than ALuminum. I have had times getting a cassette off was a real challenge on AL freehub bodies.







http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RACS001-01-ENG.pdf

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: NorCal

8/18/17 9:33 AM

Thanks for the findings!

This cassette trades any tight ratios on the top end for lots of smooth shifts when the going gets steep. Would make a great 1x I would think, but then a mtb cassette might be even better, 9sp can swing the same spread.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17844
Location: Portland, OR

8/18/17 2:17 PM

HG800-11 11-34t


14-28t CS-6800


Following pictures HG800-11 mounted on 7700 Dura Ace 9 speed wheel/freehub without the supplied spacer. [spacer for use on 11 speed freehub]



3mm clearance DR cage to closest spoke 3x 32 spoke wheel.


12-32t CS-6800 top gear.


HG800-11 11-34t top gear.


Shifted perfectly with zero trimming on Di2-6870.
Wheel I took off 11 speed freehub BHS [bikehubstore.com] SL210 SuperLight Rear Road Hub.

I was surprised without b-screw diddle it went right up to 34t and ran quiet. But it is a pretty greasy chain.

Note: RD-6870 GS cage is 85mm c/c on the pulley centers. Same as 10 speed Road GS RD.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

8/18/17 7:20 PM

1.133333333 30 to 34
1.111111111 27 to 30
1.08 25 to 27
1.086956522 23 to 25
1.095238095 21 to 23
1.105263158 19 to 21
1.117647059 17 to 19
1.133333333 15 to 17
1.153846154 13 to 15
1.181818182 11 to 13

This is a simple larger-divided-by-smaller comparison of the jumps in the cogs.

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: NorCal

8/20/17 12:58 AM

I just upgraded a friend's new Cervelo R5 to full 9100 spec, but used the wheels/cassette off of my Colnago CX-Zero to test it out since he has his Mavic wheels in the shop for ~warranty repair at the moment.
I am using my 11-32t cassette with his standard-cage (one-size-fits-all) 9100 rear derailer, and the chain length came up as nearly three links longer than full-tight so he can use his 11-30t cassette later.
With a couple of turns in on the B-tension screw it works fine in all the gears, only slightly clunky sounding when moving to/from the largest cogs.

The front mech's cable routing and adjustment screws are just weird, the hi-limit isn't a limit it's a booster adjustment that moves the cage outward while the limiting function is in the shifter, which should make life easier on the cable.
The rear mech is also way different with the cable routing, with the single sprung pivot and with the limit and B-tension screws being adjusted only with a 2mm Allen key.


I will test ride it in the morning.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17844
Location: Portland, OR

8/20/17 7:32 AM

Di2 RD-6870 has Allens also. I did not look to see if the actuation/stop is as you report. Will look...

Looked: the usual, screw hits a stop.


What the RD-9100 pulley center meas.?

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: NorCal

8/20/17 12:06 PM

Hmm, I didn't need to remove the pullies.

The Hi "limit" screw has no stop per se, it just acts like the cable adjuster, tightening it boosts the travel further outward in response to the cable pull.

The levers on both sides have a travel limit that kicks in as the largest chainring or cog is selected, though the rear derailer does still feature a traditional lo-limit screw instead of a booster link screw like the front one has.

The front derailer is fully weirded out the first time you have one in your hands and try to figure out it functions and how you will go about installing and adjusting it.
It is feathery light and delicate in appearance from any angle. There is a prominent cable tension adjusting Allen screw above the cage, which rotates the swiveling pinch bolt boss so as to take up cable like a spool.

It has yet a fourth tiny adjusting 2mm Allen screw, a plain setscrew that is even present on my 6800 front derailer and accessed through a hole in the cage, though I was not able to see any effect from turning it. I'm not certain, but it looks like perhaps this setscrew is supposed to contact the tiny curved metal plate that comes in the package and has double-sided tape on it to secure to the seat tube of the frame(???).

It sucks that Shimano has long since abandoned including any useful installation literature with even their boxed parts, only several sheets of CYA doc's.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17844
Location: Portland, OR

8/20/17 12:19 PM

"Hmm, I didn't need to remove the pullies."

to measure the pulley c/c removing? As I included above, the GS RD are 85mm. I am curious what "standard-cage (one-size-fits-all) 9100 rear derailer" c/c is. Is there a GS or Standard, I have not looked much into/at 9100.

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: NorCal

8/22/17 12:46 PM

I see, after thinking you wanted to know what the mounting width of the pullies was.

The new derailer has only one sprung pivot, so requires a longer cage to wrap even the same amount of chain. I don't have the bike here now to measure what looked like 3-4" C-C.

These single-sprung-pivot models usually have the top pulley concentric with the cage pivot, so no need for the derailer to try to accommodate the top pulley rising and falling with each chainring shift.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17844
Location: Portland, OR

8/22/17 1:39 PM

I just did a ride with the cassette. It is really a friendly linear progression of teeth. I did not exoect it to be so. Id still use my 14-28 close ratio for a fast pace ride with the club. If i remembered how to go fast i mean...

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1688
Location: SE Pa, USA

8/22/17 2:37 PM

Yes, that's what the fourth screw is for. Di2 fd's have had this "support" screw for some time to stiffen things given the force that the new fd's shift with.

Screw it in until it contacts the plate (many hangers have a built in area and don't need it) and turn until the rear of the cage just begins to toe out, then back it off till cage is parallel again.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17844
Location: Portland, OR

8/22/17 3:19 PM

"Di2 fd's have had this "support" screw for some time to stiffen things"

When I put the Di2 on the Addict, I had small confidence the landing pad was going to stay on. And the thought of the screw going into the HMX stupid light carbon near the minimalist carbon FD hanger caused me pause. Especially after seeing some of them torn away taking some seat tube with them in pics on the internets.

So I JB welded a thin brass plate I shaped to the 'braze on' [ambiguous] carbon and onto the seat tube. Stiffened up the tab nicely, always though it was flimsy frankly, and a nice solid landing spot for the anti torque screw to land on.

When I put 105 5800 11s on with a cabled DR again, the stiffer FD attachment shiftet better up front than the the 7800 that was on prior to the DI2. When I first build it, the FD 'braze on' was flexy enough I stopped and got on the internet for data. But the cable pull is centered well and it stayed stationary enough... Plus 7800 shifts well upfront anyway, it was a 7800 39/53 originally [my first build].

Yada

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