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Pardon me?
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15867
Location: Portland, OR

7/21/17 5:25 PM

Pardon me?

Ok you lawyers, chime in if you would...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/21/us/politics/trump-pardon-himself-presidential-clemency.html

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 2858
Location: Springfield

7/21/17 6:12 PM

How About That Stage 18?

Some good surprises on the road Thursday, yep.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 2858
Location: Springfield

7/21/17 6:31 PM

What a finish Friday, stage 19

Well done.

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1591
Location: SE Pa, USA

7/21/17 7:05 PM

I'm in your camp, Bob, but the NYT and the New Yorker need to give it a break.

He'll fail on his own, and they're just giving credence to the liberal media accusations. Of course if he pardoned himself he could still be impeached, so its meaningless speculation.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15867
Location: Portland, OR

7/21/17 7:46 PM

"NYT and the New Yorker need to give it a break."

They do like the Donald. Given how litigious he at beating dead horses in court, some history may get made I figure. But was curious what the Lawyers may have to say.

I saw the link on Slate, which was once not so lefty. But was ashamed to let that cat outta the bag, so looked for other hosted links. ;)


I am watching Today's stage in reply now. I really enjoyed yesterdays state though.

Damn!

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 2858
Location: Springfield

7/21/17 8:09 PM

The way I understand it, he can't be charged in office so a pardon is moot. After impeachment he will be a regular citizen and the new President will have the power to pardon.

re: The italicized part, The JD's and historians have corrected me before, have at it.

Today's politics are so bitter. Where do you start the discussion? When do you stop it?

I read the NY'er and I'm getting tired of the political covers and the political coverage.

Lately I've been thinking DJT acts like he wants a good excuse to quit and go back to the quiet life of a real-estate mogul / TV personality.

BTW: Listening to General Joe Dunford, Chairman Joint Chiefs, at the National Press Club, it's good to listen to a level head who knows he works for the civilians. Next up: Newt Gingrich on Trump, also at the NPC - hooboy.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5790
Location: Maine

7/22/17 3:47 AM

Who knows?

And as Greg says, who cares?

We have a more interesting question in Maine, which is whether Gov. LePage can pardon a dog which a court ordered put down. He did so, and his authority has been challenged. This is one of his few actions I support. A friend offered to represent him pro bono on this issue and he indicated he may take her up on that.

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Steve B.
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 653
Location: Long Island, NY

7/22/17 8:00 AM

Agree about Stage 18.

The top 3 GC riders all duke'ing it out up a killer climb.

Vintage stuff with a remarkable ride by Barguil. Not often you see the Polka Dot going for a stage win like that.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15867
Location: Portland, OR

7/22/17 9:11 AM

Froome gets to sleep longer than everyone else starting last... That cant be a bad thing. :)

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Craig
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 511

7/22/17 11:36 PM

Roman Mars has extended his podcasting reach with a series specifically about the president and his powers in relation to constitutional law.

https://trumpconlaw.com/

Episode 5 is specifically about Presidential immunity.

It's well done and interesting listening. Cycling related because I listen to podcasts while riding my bike.

I've been a long time Roman Mars and his first podcast, 99% Invisible.

The Tour is on?

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4227
Location: metro-motown-area

7/23/17 6:38 AM

<img src=https://scontent.fdet1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20245574_10212387001942023_1386150557193713669_n.jpg?oh=f1fb4952227e7baa5cbeb357202efeca&oe=59EAD13C>

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Tom Price
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 400
Location: Rochester, NY

7/23/17 7:07 AM

Russiagate is a huge story. Don Jr., Sessions, Flynn, Manafort, and more all denied ties with Russia and have been found to have lied. Mueller has thirteen of the country's best prosecutors investigating, and the NY Attorney General is investigating Trump for money laundering. There will be a strong case against the Donald soon and the shit will hit the fan.

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4227
Location: metro-motown-area

7/23/17 7:33 AM

i wonder how many...

...reluctant 45* voters (as opposed to true supporters) are willing to admit they chose the wrong candidate. around the election i heard all sorts of "rule of law" statements around the watercooler as their rationale for their choice. since then, its pretty clear that 45* has complete disregard for laws, much less basic human decency. and it would be hard to make a credible case today that 45* is "the lesser of 2 evils".

my sense is that reluctant 45* voters put party before country and that conservative dogma prevents them from ever conceding an error of judgement that would otherwise favor a liberal candidate.

thoughts?

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3780
Location: Nashua, NH

7/23/17 8:30 AM

I'm one of those "reluctant" Trump voters

I voted for him primarily for one reason, I wanted a conservative justice to replace Antonin Scalia. Well, that and the fact that I absolutely despise the Clintons and I knew what kind of a nightmare Hillary would have been. I voted with expectation that Trump would probably not make it through his first year without being impeached and definitely not through his first term. I was - and am - willing to accept any short-term (months to years) damage he does, rather than suffering the long-term (decades to indefinite) damage of having a liberal Supreme Court. I suspect that there are a lot of Trump voters who did the same and are not Trump supporters.

It absolutely sucks that there was no other choice, as I can't stand Trump and I knew he would be a pathetic President. If the Libertarians had put forward a candidate that was more aware of his surroundings than your average potted plant, they might have had a chance. A golden opportunity squandered.

Whether you agree with me or not, my vote was not an error in judgement, as I knew exactly what I was doing.

- Gorsuch is the kind of justice I wanted. Check!

- I was counting on Trump being so abhorrent and corrupt that he wouldn't last long in office and it's looking increasingly like I'll get what I expected. The sooner, the better!

- A bonus is that the Republican party is divided and distracted enough that Trump and his supporters in Congress haven't been able to do any major or irreparable damage (not that they haven't tried).

So far, the plan has worked.

Once Trump is gone, everyone will breathe a sigh of relief, congressional Republicans included. While I'm not a not a fan of Pence, he's a lot more savvy politician and has respect for voters, the office and the process of governing. With the "bar" set so low that it's basically on the ground, he can't help but be better than Trump. ;-)

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4227
Location: metro-motown-area

7/23/17 8:49 AM

Thx for the reply

Interesting take...never as simple as it seems!

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15867
Location: Portland, OR

7/23/17 9:08 AM

Sometime the choice is just a shitty one. Totally agree Pence at least know what law and the constitution is. We go thru cycles of Dem and GOP administrations, checks and balances etc.

But putting celebrity in the white house is such a major gamble, and this particular 'celeb' demonstrates the lawlessness of his ways clearly, sauce for the cooked goose?

Supreme court, and the lack of even a hearing for the sitting POTUS's choice to me stank to high heavens. Wrong administrated as such no matter which side governs like that IMO.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 2858
Location: Springfield

7/23/17 9:17 AM

Over the winter I talked to the clerk behind the register, etc. who voted DJT, and I'm sure they were playing checkers to Brian's chess, but the response was generally "What did I do?"

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6117
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/23/17 9:29 AM

"never as simple as it seems"

That's right. With both houses in Rep hands, even if Hillary were elected the president, there wouldn't be a super-liberal Supreme Court judge that would pass the confirmation.

As of now, the Republican still had to lower the required vote to simple majority to get THIS conservative judge confirmed. Since that "simple majority" will now be the rule, there will come a day when the Republicans will have to live with easier confirmation of super-liberal judge(s) being appointed to the Supreme Court too!

It sets the stage for a much wilder left-right swing going forward. That's not a "short term" damage. It goes far beyond the next few terms...

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5790
Location: Maine

7/23/17 9:42 AM

Interesting

I can't predict what any Trump voter is going to do, but I think the reaction of Republican congressmen, particularly Senators, may become interesting.

I can't imagine they liked seeing Trump turn like a snake in the grass on Sessions, who I believe is popular among Republican Senators (I am not a Sessions fan, but his decision to recuse was appropriate and not at all an admission of guilt or sign of weakness). Then there was Trump threatening the Nevada Sen. sisitting next to him at the health care lunch, with the Sen. then laughing at him. Now I'm waiting to see if Don Jr. and Manafort get in a fight with Grassley over testimony. With a 36% approval rating, the R Sens may conclude there is little to gain by humoring him.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15867
Location: Portland, OR

7/23/17 9:57 AM

"can't imagine they liked seeing Trump turn like a snake in the grass on Sessions"

Maybe if he does this may mark the bus tire marks on Trumps Ars. It seems GOP underlings are more likely to eat their young than their counterparts. And not counting age, Trump certainly is 'young-ling' in politics in their eyes I am thinking.

Isn't it just a matter of time before he gets 'gated' or 'Newt'ered, or is this just wishful thinking on my part?

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4227
Location: metro-motown-area

7/23/17 10:06 AM

"wishful thinking"

i fear that elected GOP officials will not show any morals (but will show their character), will not speak out meaningfully against 45*, will not take action against 45* despite his many and growing list of indiscretions, and just sit on their hands while riding the crazy-train to oblivion in their never ending pursuit of power.

fwiw...i hope i'm wrong!

<img src=https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/12/6e/6b/126e6bfc413f1f2be2a1d6b60a3a37c1.jpg>


Last edited by walter on 7/24/17 10:05 AM; edited 1 time in total

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 2857
Location: Midland, MI

7/23/17 3:42 PM

Scalia doppleganger


quote:
I wanted a conservative justice to replace Antonin Scalia


I understand the desire, but there are things that Scalia (and Thomas) and his new doppleganger Gorsuch support that are beyond the pale. As a simple example, Louisiana passed a law REQUIRING the teaching of creationism in public schools. Thomas and Scalia agreed that this was religious action, but claimed that since the legislators didn't state that the purpose was religious, the law was constitutional. That is beyond ridiculous and a preposterous misinterpretation of the Establishment Clause. No one can claim this was good law, and it shows religious ideology trumping the Constitution.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3780
Location: Nashua, NH

7/24/17 5:19 AM

That was Scalia's one failing...

...he simply couldn't separate church and state. I'm not sure that Gorsuch suffers from the same affliction, or to the same degree.

As for the Republicans in Congress, we're getting very close to the tipping point where they will turn on Trump. We saw the first brave souls stand up in the healthcare debate and I expect that we'll see more in the budget debate. Sooner or later, Trump will attack and alienate everyone, then he's done for.

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3507
Location: Brooklyn, NY

7/24/17 7:43 AM

I think we're seeing foreign leaders basically working around 45 and the United States, generally ignoring 45. And now the Senate is beginning to do the same.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 2858
Location: Springfield

7/24/17 8:01 AM

Scalia wore his Catholicism on his sleeve. Does Gorsuch pass that litmus test?

"Sooner or later, Trump will attack and alienate everyone, then he's done for."
To wit: His staff and lawyers abandoning.

Parkin: Heck yeah.

Trump says: "Investigating my personal finances is forbidden."
Independent Counsel hears: "Investigate his personal finances."

Only after DJT entered the political arena has he run into the wall of Einstein's definition of insanity.

Heh, the swamp of Einstein's....


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