CYCLINGFORUM.COM - Where Cyclists Talk Tech --- Return To Home

 

    Register FAQ'sSearchProfileLog In / Log Out

 

****

cyclingforum.com ****

HOMECLUBS | SPONSORS | FEATURESPHOTO GALLERYTTF DONORS | SHOP FOR GEAR

Return to CyclingForum Home Page CYCLING TECH TALK FORUM
          View posts since last visit

Pardon me?
 Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Author Thread Post new topic Reply to topic
Craig
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 591

7/25/17 7:20 PM

My (limited) understanding of the reason for Nixon stepping down was the threat of impeachment and that at the time the Democrats controlled the senate but it wasn't the Democrats who threatened impeachment, it was Nixon's own party, so a precedent has been set for a party impeaching their own leader. I think. Because I'm not sure I have this 100% correct (in my defense, I'm Canadian).

Also, an interesting point was raised that if Trump pardons all those around him, those pardoned no longer have the right to plead the 5th amendment, so by pardoning his family he may be obligating them to openly testify against him in an impeachment hearing. But if he doesn't pardon them it sounds like there's a significant amount of evidence piling up against his family. What does he do? Pardon his family? And then get Pence to pardon him after the fact? Nixon stepped down and was then pardoned by Ford. At least it would get the bonehead out of the office.

American politics all seems so absurd. Every time Trump tweets I can't believe anyone voted for that moron. But I was not a fan of Hillary either. But then criticism of McCain in 2012 was that he was too old to be elected, could you imagine him being elected and then re-elected and as he's diagnosed with brain cancer in the first 6 months of his second term you'd be swearing in President Palin?

I think the best president you guys have had in the last 20 years is Josiah Bartlet...

 Reply to topic    

greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1724
Location: SE Pa, USA

7/25/17 7:26 PM


quote:

I believe he phrases it as "that makes me smart,"



quote:
What he clearly is, is a man with absolutely no moral compass. I have no doubt that he has knowingly laundered money, engaged in fraud, and breached as many contracts as he could get away with.


We rest our case.

And yes, Craig, if he's arrogant enough to fire Sessions and/or Mueller, then that's what transpires.

One can only hope.

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

Steve B.
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 769
Location: Long Island, NY

7/25/17 7:50 PM

One plan I read is Trump does a temporary step down citing the 25th amendment, Pence as acting Prez. pardons everybody, then Trump returns. It would be an awkward moment if Pence then claims Trump is incapacitated and refuses to relinquish the throne.

It doesn't prevent an impeachment, only the potential for indictment, which I also read is theoretically possible even for a President. Nothing in the constitution that forbids an indictment of a sitting President.

 Reply to topic    

April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/25/17 7:56 PM

Sorry Craig and Greg, I don't think the Republicans will impeach him. Apart from basically admitting they were wrong in nominating him in the first place, they risk alienating Trump's supporters which are still the Republican base. Lose-lose. Not gonna happen.

Nearly 50% of the voters voted for him.That's not a number anyone can ignore!!

Whatever their motivation, they convinced themselves Trump will give them what they want (Supreme Court Judge, repeal of ObamaCare, getting rid of Muslim & Mexican, jobs etc). Most had already explicitly "overlooked" his pussy-grabbing, his bankruptcy, his refusal to made public of his tax returns. They couldn't care less that he "protects" his family! Heck, most of them would want the privilege to do the same if it's their own family in question. So don't count on any significant defection from his supporters.

Even if there's real evidence of him colluding with the Russians (which I happen to believe there's probably none, because Trump isn't the kind to "collude" with anyone), most of his supporters will just overlook it the same way as they did before.

I see only one good way to be rid of him: he serving his full term but is completely irrelevant.

It's already happening already. His cabinet members fired/resigned left and right. His "initiatives" blocked or languishing into oblivion. It's now an established pattern, everyone knows how to make him irrelevant!

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

7/26/17 5:13 AM

Congressional Republicans didn't want Trump...

...as their nominee, April. Neither did the Republican party bosses. Most of them dismissed him as a bad joke. It wasn't until he started to win primaries that they took him seriously and by then it was too late. It was the voters who wanted Trump and put him in office, not the Republican party or congressional Republicans.

There's little doubt in my mind that there are a lot of Republicans in Congress who are just waiting for evidence of a crime or for him to do something else heinous/stupid/irresponsible/treasonous enough that they can turn on him. If the election were held again today, he would lose in a landslide, even against a candidate as horrible as Hillary.

Trump is effectively a "dead man walking" from a political standpoint. It's just a matter of time.

 Reply to topic    

PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3712
Location: Brooklyn, NY

7/26/17 7:33 AM

Note that bankruptcy can only be declared if you're losing money. A good businessman, almost by definition, makes money.

And now, this:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-us-will-not-accept-or-allow-transgender-people-to-serve-in-us-military-in-any-capacity-twitter/ar-AAoRF2y

It would be cosmic karma for Melania to announce that she's transgender . . . one can dream . . .

I can see the signs now at recruiting stations (do they still have those?) - "Only cisgender need apply".

I wonder how much of this is out of the Reagan playbook - when the net gets tight, try to distract. In Reagan's case though, he went and invaded another country (Grenada, Panama . . . ).

 Reply to topic    

April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/26/17 2:49 PM


quote:
If the election were held again today, he would lose in a landslide, even against a candidate as horrible as Hillary.

That's what everyone expected during the Republican primay and the election last year!

They were dead wrong then. And I think you're just as wrong now.

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/26/17 3:30 PM

"They were dead wrong then. And I think you're just as wrong now."

Subtract Comey and DNC hack, no Bengazi hearings...

But as desensitized as the voter is to Trump's brashness [and more] at this point, this is probably right if I was to take a guess.

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/26/17 5:01 PM

I don't think his supporters give a damn about the DNC hack or the Russian hack.

As for hos failure on the health care bill, he can rightly blame the Republican Sanate.

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/26/17 6:11 PM

"I don't think his supporters give a damn about the DNC hack"

Nor I, but if less HC voters stayed away from the poles due to this, a different result may well have occurred. I think Trump and voters enjoyed it immensely. Question is was his campaign complicit in it, or rather if they were will it ever become actionable.

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

Craig
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 591

7/26/17 7:28 PM

"I don't think his supporters give a damn about the DNC hack or the Russian hack.

As for hos failure on the health care bill, he can rightly blame the Republican Sanate."

It's not about Drumpf supports caring about the Russians and the DNC hack, I think there was a lot of voter apathy amongst Democrats because no one (except Michael Moore) thought Drumpf could possibly win. I think with hindsight amongst Democrats, with the number of people Drumpf has pissed off (just added an estimated 1.4million Americans who identify as transgender) and the estimated 22 million people that would lose health care under Drumpf, I have a really hard time believing Drumpf would win again should an election be called tomorrow.

It's not about the Republican agenda either, because Drumpf isn't putting up an agenda that his party can support. His failure on a health care bill may be the fault of the Republican Senate, but the Republican Senate understands that if they want to be re-elected they can't kick 22 million Americans out of the health care system.

I think Hillary was just about the only candidate Drumpf could have won against. That's a Democratic party failure for sure. But today, I think the only Republican nominee that Hillary could beat is Drumpf. It was a no-win election. Clinton's most redeeming quality is that she's not Drumpf, and I suspect that's where it ends.

 Reply to topic    

April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/26/17 9:39 PM


quote:
if less HC voters stayed away from the poles due to this, a different result may well have occurred.

That's a big if!



quote:
I think there was a lot of voter apathy amongst Democrats because no one (except Michael Moore) thought Drumpf could possibly win.I think with hindsight amongst Democrats, with the number of people Drumpf has pissed off

I don't personally know anyone who would have voted HC who didn't bother to go to vote. I don't know ANY personally. Everyone I knew are either strongly supporting one or the other and all were eager to cast their vote.

Didn't the polls showed Trump galvanized a significant number of apathetic Republican voters to cast their vote for him? The same is true of those who are against him, but sadly a smaller number?

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/26/17 10:12 PM

NBC News:
The DOJ has ID'd a former business associate of ex-Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort as an "upper-echelon [associate] of Russian organized crime."

Manafort into this guy for $9.9M and they were trying to seal an $850M hotel deal in Manhattan.

What's one thing sets Russian oligarchs apart from other billionaires? Broken noses. (This is what happens when I watch the news instead of read or listen to it.)


Last edited by daddy-o on 7/27/17 6:36 AM; edited 1 time in total

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/27/17 6:35 AM

What is the up-side for the Kentucky Senate voters who vote for Rand Paul and Mitch McConnell?

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4391
Location: metro-motown-area

7/27/17 6:37 AM

<img src=https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFo3tbNVoAAY8i-.jpg>

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/27/17 6:56 AM

These three states were enough to sway the election.
25,000 voters in Wisconsin: 1.8% more (the weekend before the election she polled ahead 8%)
11,000 voters in Michigan: .5% more ( _one HALF_ percent)(the weekend before the election she polled ahead 5%)
47,000 voters in Pennsylvania: 1.5% more (the weekend before the election she polled ahead 5%)

His siren call "the system is rigged" has been silent. I hope politicians are ready for it to begin if he is forced from office. His political rivals need to become vocal critics to back up their vote for real change.

Trump attacks. He understands and admires strong men in the most crude sense, hence Putin and look how DJT responded to Macron of France after the 'duel of the handshake' when they met.

Heh, the way DJT announced in the Oval Office "It's my birthday." (OMG, is 71 that important?)
Birthdays are important to him.
"Hey, Bastille Day is coming! Let's go to France and celebrate with the Macrons."

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/27/17 8:46 AM

Polls


quote:
25,000 voters in Wisconsin: 1.8% more (the weekend before the election she polled ahead 8%)
11,000 voters in Michigan: .5% more ( _one HALF_ percent)(the weekend before the election she polled ahead 5%)
47,000 voters in Pennsylvania: 1.5% more (the weekend before the election she polled ahead 5%)

Except we all know polls are not always an accurate reflection of reality. Even if the election was held immediately AFTER the poll, it could easily be different if the sampling assumption was off. (exit polls are generally more accurate since it's easier to control sampling bias) News report always throw out all the percentage number, does anyone notice the "+/- x%" attached to the numbers? A 5% lead with +/- 4% uncertainty means what?

Further more, when polls showing a "commanding lead", it could potentially encourage voter apathy for the "winning side" and energize voter on the "losing side".

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/27/17 8:49 AM

Further more, when polls showing a "commanding lead", it could potentially encourage voter apathy for the "winning side" and energize voter on the "losing side".

Exactly.

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3234
Location: Midland, MI

7/27/17 9:27 AM

Turnabout


quote:
The big question is when the Republicans will start putting country before politics.


Or the Democrats? Seems likely that neither will happen. It's not in their nature. While I support the Democratic agenda a lot more than the Republican agenda, both parties are much more about gaining power than about doing the right thing for the country. It's just that when Republicans gain power they can't help themselves about bathroom bills, punishing the poor, rewarding the wealthy, voter suppression, etc. Their base demands some of it and their philosophy demands the rest.

 Reply to topic    

daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/27/17 10:53 AM

In my naive ideological bubble Democrats enable initiative and Republicans reward initiative.

Neither side has all the answers because they address different situations. But through this screen of intensifying contrast subtle solutions are lost.

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

7/27/17 3:11 PM


quote:
Further more, when polls showing a "commanding lead", it could potentially encourage voter apathy for the "winning side" and energize voter on the "losing side".


Precisely my point, April. Trump didn't win because he had stronger support, he won because a lot of Democrats didn't like Clinton and when they thought she was going to win easily, they didn't bother to vote. These idiots were the majority of the people that were out protesting in the streets right after the election.

Whether you want to believe it or not, Trump has lost support among his voters, particularly among women. They not the unified zombie army that you make them out to be. People are realizing that a lot of his promises were hollow, his policies would hurt them (if anything actually passed) and that he has no idea what he's doing. You can see that very graphically in his plummeting approval ratings.

With the election as close as it was, there is no way he would win today. Not a chance. Not that it matters, since the Constitution doesn't allow for "do overs" for "non-voter remorse".

 Reply to topic    

Steve B.
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 769
Location: Long Island, NY

7/27/17 5:44 PM

Good points Brian

What I find remarkable, is for all Trumps stupidity, his owning and mastering amongst his minions, the term "fake news" is just brilliant.

It's an instant out for all of his supporters who refused to take a close look at who Trump was, prior to the election as well as what he's become now. Anything they read or see about Trump that doesn't agree with what they WANT Trump to be, is just falsehoods drummed up by his enemies.

Hard to change people's opinions in this reality.

 Reply to topic    

April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/27/17 11:34 PM


quote:
Trump has lost support among his voters, particularly among women. They not the unified zombie army that you make them out to be.

I've never heard of the "unified zombie army" of women!

I don't even know a single woman who voted for him. I do know quite a few people who voted for him, all of them men. (granted, most of my friends are guys). None of the people who voted for him changed their mind yet.

Being in New York, most of his supporter were under no illusion about his "business success". (THIS is the city where he made the biggest business failure). They voted for him for his personification of the Republican pro-business policy. So far, they blame the Republican party for the lack of success in passing any meaningful bills. I happen to share that opinion, albeit with opposite sentiment for their failure.

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

7/28/17 7:13 AM

Today's highlights

1. Is The Mooch awesome or what?

2. Trump fails in attempt to extort Sen Lisa Murkowski.

3. Head of the Boy Scouts apologizes for Trump's speech.

4. McCain is a great man.

5. Let's also hear it for Sen Susan Collins of Fort Fairfield, Maine.

 Reply to topic    

daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/28/17 8:07 AM

👍👍👍👍👍

(UTF-8 encoding if it looks broken)

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail


Return to CyclingForum Home Page CYCLING TECH TALK FORUM
           View New Threads Since My Last Visit VIEW THREADS SINCE MY LAST VISIT
           Start a New Thread

 Display posts from previous:   


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next  
Last Thread | Next Thread  >  

  
  

 


If you enjoy this site, please consider pledging your support

cyclingforum.com - where cyclists talk tech
Cycling TTF Rides Throughout The World

Cyclingforum is powered by SYNCRONICITY.NET in Denver, Colorado -

Powered by phpBB: Copyright 2006 phpBB Group | Custom phpCF Template by Syncronicity