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Syntace p6 carbon hiflex report
 

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

1/30/17 2:21 PM

Syntace p6 carbon hiflex report

Just went for a 1 mile feely ride.

Observations goes like this:

Madone Kamtail 90mm BB frame, 1-1/2" lower steerer setup [stiff!]. For example, the 2008 Addict HMX, one of the stiffest bikes dejour for a few years possibly, rides 10-15% [arbitrary] fewer calories... er.. I mean more compliant feel with 23s on narrow rims than the Madone with 25s spread out to 27.8. Bitch is stiff.

OK: Madone w ALum. seatpost, 25 Contis spread out to about 28mm. 80/87 lbs aired up. -bordering harsh IMO.

Same with a Works Pave Roubaix Zertz Post, good deal better and noticable, not night and day. With Hutchinson Kevlar Fusion 3 Proteck tires not quite as nice [@90 lbs]. These work best on the steel Reynolds I've found as far as feeling nice.

P6 Hiflex Post @ the 6CM mark [more post out more flex] with the 25mm Fusion 3 Protecks @ 85/90.

Immediate noticeable dampened feel. Street for 2-3 house on my street is really cracked and chucked up FWIW. Ride approaches the ride of the Addict. Now the Addict has the ISP seatmast and rides better than I expected. That has to be pretty stiff VS seatpost, guessing. About same amount of post/mast above the Top Tube as the Madone.

Tried the Spesh Toupe 135 gram saddle, same feel as the Fizik that has been on it as far as road/ride feel. Way more minimalist saddle than all the Fiziks I have.

I wanted to try the Toupe as it has such a low stack I have to raise the saddle/post. More post out, more flex. In fact the stack is like 1" from the top of saddle to rail centers before I sit my fat ass on it. I can't use it with some seatposts as it bottoms on the top clamp when said fat ass is atop.

When this weather get friendlier I want to put this to the 5 hour ride test.

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3345
Location: NorCal

1/30/17 2:44 PM

If you could come up with a way to just sit on the saddle and measure each post's static deflection, you'd at least have a numerically-quantified flex. Better yet if the saddle's flex were added into the measurement, so you could evaluate "system" total for each setup.

It must be my forward positioning along with my preference for relatively soft saddles (as I lack much in the way of "organic" padding), but I mostly only ever notice different bike's harshness through the handlebars, where choice of tape and the bend radius of the bars also makes a good bit of difference.
As well, my steel bikes seem to absorb the bigger hits exceptionally well, even at my 140# weight.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

1/30/17 4:32 PM

Sparky, it would also really help...

...if you followed the most basic tenet of the Scientific Method and changed only one thing at a time. Pick one bike, one set of wheels, one tire pressure setting, one saddle and change only the seatpost. That would provide a useful comparison. Your posts are entertaining, but trying to keep track of your manic changing of components, settings and bikes just gives me a headache. ;-)

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

1/30/17 4:59 PM

Except Brian, if I was not unclear. Or I convoluted how I expressed my concepts [as I sometime do].

>The tire differences, which I observed as being harsher prior to the P6 post was less harsh than the tires I observed as being less harsh prior to the P6. Additionally I meant to suggest that the minimalist uber light saddle also denoted a direction to the negative which was still to the positive as noted. It is all subjective anyway.

Like Dave said, some of us have more naturally occurring tissue at the contact points. If eating too much can be considered naturally occurring. ;)

I expected that the degree of difference, or more the direction of difference might be extrapolated.

So if you are looking for a precise experiment to prove or disprove anything, feel free to do it. It feels better, simply put. Perhaps I should have just simply put it that way.

I did not know you were trying to keep track. ;)

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2815
Location: hillbilly heaven

1/31/17 6:30 PM

So the time cross bike I bought has an integrated seatmast that I ride at the bottom of the adjustment range Before I had a bike with an integrated seatmast I wondered why and what purpose they serve or what problem they solve it. I'm convinced now that they are just stupid.

Fortunately this one can be cut down or off and the stepped clamp will allow the use of a 27.2 seat post. If I keep it I imagine I'll take a hacksaw to it and use the seat post of my choice- hopefully we'll get some lower cost options with some flex in them.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

1/31/17 6:41 PM

"I'm convinced now that they are just stupid."

Pointless! Agree.

"hopefully we'll get some lower cost options with some flex in them."

Cheaper... not if they don't have to. ;)

I chose the P6 due to 10 year warranty, no weight limit, and approved for MTN bike use.

I'll update the thread in 10 years and comment if it was worth the $180.00.

I took it for a longer ride with more air in the tires earlier. I aimed at every road blemish and hole/rut I saw. There is no question in my mind it improved the Madone ride/feel and more vibration dampening over the Pave/Zertz Works post.

The first post was a race face Aluminum. I put the 10 year old Pave on POST haste!

BTW, the clamp on the P6 is identical to the Raceface. Minus the TI bolts the P6 supposedly has. It is one of the better clamp designs I have come across IMO.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

3/13/17 12:30 PM

Continuation of 'cush' trials.

27.2 P6 VS 25.4 C2 Cannondale post. [still luv that my spell checker wants to change that to canoodle] ;)

Used a shim with the 25.4 to compare to the 27.2 P6. My expectation was the 25.4 with the same amount of post exposed might flex more be more cushy.

Unlike how I felt the P6 added noticeable cushiness from the AL post, I do not believe I could tell the 25.4mm C2 from the 27.2mm P6.

So I am thinking the design of the P6 with the thinner side tube thickness is the reason it is so effective. VS the smaller diameter C2/25.4 post with equal wall thickness.

Conclusion. Other than the saddle clamp on the P6 being about the best clamp I have ever seen or used, the C2 with a shim for just under 1/2 the P6 cost. It is as effective on my steel Strong and Madone as far as I can feel. [within my perception]

P6 is lighter and the non bonded clamp head may well outlast the C2. But the C2 is Di2 battery provisioned FWIW. The P6 also is just better looking IMO.

Best part is the shimmed 25.4 on my disc Strong easily passed the butt on the seatube. 4.5" from the top of the ST it tapers. I was not too happy when I learned that. Thus why it had an Aluminum post. Was not going to cut a carbon post. I did start out with a CT2 Easton post that was short enough, but it is so old and had more setback than desired. Reaming the seat tube was an option apparently. Butt ;) taking any material off such a thin high end steel tube seemed like not a great idea. Not to mention the process not going totally correctly an issue?

It surprised me Carl did not ream it, or move the tube lower in the build. Probably more normal that builders do it the way he did it, the one thing I wish was averted in the build frankly.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

3/14/17 11:48 AM

...if you followed the most basic tenet of the Scientific Method and changed only one thing at a time.

That means more riding Sparky, tempted now?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

3/14/17 11:52 AM

That means more riding Sparky, tempted now?

You betcha. As far as changes, it ain't rocket science.
Previous change headed in a direction, don't have to repeat all the steps. I guess the take away of that last 'post' ;) is the P6 and C2 A/B on the Madone seem more similar if not the same perceivable. [your butts may vary]

Sunday was 65^ and just beautiful. Elaine and I hoofed it via mass transit and spent the day downtown. She wanted to go to a set sale for the Show Grimm. They had stopped letting folks even get on line before we arrived. And it was still mid afternoon too. ;)

We first stopped for brunch at a club coffee stop in time for me to meet my usual partners in crime rolling/leaving. I think Elaine may have seen the tears even though I had shades on. ;)

But this all is new with Elaine since the steroid injection. So getting out and doing stuff without fear of days of residual pain for her is a gift for her, and for me as well.

So I ride Thurs in sick wind, and walk around all Sunday which was like a day in May. Oh well! ;)

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