5/19/15 9:42 PM

Machine arrived today...gathered what I had read in my brain and gave it a go. Not entirely sure how much crema is desirable or too much. Tasted ok but I'm sure I have a long, long period of trial and error ahead of me. Pandora's box has been opened!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGLw4pxwlu0

As for beans, it's Seattle. When I asked the other day I kind of forgot where I live. Roasters all over the place, here....

5/19/15 10:21 PM

I actually buy a lot of Seattle's Best here. For mortal's coffee I mean...

;)

5/20/15 9:15 AM

k, folks, now into the troubleshooting phase. Fresh beans bought from a roaster yesterday

I know the numbers are meaningless outside of my kitchen but this morning's experiments revealed the following-

any grind below 10 results in little to no water flowing through the grounds and thus, no espresso.

10 and above produces too much weak espresso, pressure never gets to the optimal range.

Dafuq?

5/20/15 9:32 AM

Stalling with the fine grind, and too fast flow with the coarser grind, and inability to find the happy medium, may suggest inconsistent particle size. What grinder are you using? I don't think you ever said.

However, there's another variable: dose. How much grounds are you putting in the basket, and just as important, how are you measuring it? If you're doing it only by volume, it's hard to be consistent, because the grounds pack down unpredictably. I use a little digital scale for every pull. Best $25 I ever spent.

If you do start trying to adjust dose, either a smaller dose with the finer grind, or a larger dose (and possibly harder tamp) with the coarser grind should move you in the direction you want.

5/20/15 9:41 AM

Baratza Virtuoso Preciso....but it is 4 years old. Perhaps it's time for a refit. Blargh.

5/20/15 9:46 AM

That's a good grinder, and should be in good shape unless that's four years of very heavy use. Maybe it just needs a good cleaning and adjustment? Or did you buy it refurbished?

Anyway, what about the dosing issue?

5/20/15 12:00 PM

dosing...don't have a scale. The machine came with a small dosing tool that I guess isn't good enough.

5/20/15 12:34 PM

quote:

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The machine came with a small dosing tool that I guess isn't good enough

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5/20/15 1:54 PM

Yes, a scale is helpful. There are only 3 variables;grind tamp and dose. You need to eliminate 2 by being consistent and work on one. 18 grams in a double Breville basket is the sweet spot, with fresh beans (but not too fresh, beans that are only a day or two out of roast will throw you off).

Is the pressure at around 9.5 bar when it chokes?

The razor is actually very useful once you get the technique down, unless you want to weigh every dose, some folks do. Otherwise, the Razor prevents overdosing if you're within a gram or so by eyesight.

One of the cool things about the Breville is that it was developed with input from a world class barista.

Could be that the grinder needs burrs, but I doubt it. Perfectly adequate grinder.

5/21/15 4:16 PM

I agree with Greg about the variables.

I use a scale, reads to the 0.1g level, i.e. it's sensitive down to 1 bean.
I'm currently around 16.4-16.5g using a double basket.
Much more than that, I'd have to switch to the triple basket for ease of handling.

The tamp I use is calibrated. Also when you tamp, make sure you're not pressing one side down harder than the opposite side. Standing in the same position with the elbow at the same angle each time helps.

Also, before you tamp, you need to properly eliminate the voids.

To debug your pour, I was taught to split the pour into three parts as shown below. Then taste each one and adjust.



For example, if you are on a 24 second pour for about 2 oz, each glass contains 8 seconds worth. For instance, you might find lingering bitterness in the 3rd glass.

5/22/15 11:50 AM

Yeah...I'm missing something very basic. No matter what I do it's either weak and watery or it stalls and little to nothing comes out.

Grind- getting the grinder worked on at baratza next week (the service centre happens to be semi-local)
Dose- scale arrives today
Tamp- no idea what 30lb feels like to tamp, trying to find a calibrated tamp

5/22/15 12:17 PM

You can use a scale to substitute for the calibrated tamp.

Debugging coffee is a lot of fun but frustrating unless you really know what you're doing. I was lucky I had an expert coach who told me exactly what was wrong each time.

Like with computers or networks, you need to get serious, have the right tools or you're just hoping to get lucky. And even if you get lucky, you won't be able to repeat that on demand.

You want to be able make "god" shots consistently not from luck. So you need to eliminate the variables.

I think at this stage, you should get a bottomless portafilter so you can see if things are spraying incorrectly (because you didn't tamp correctly). Your current portafilter makes it impossible to see what's going on.

Once you zero in, the adjustments to the grinder are tiny. Basically at that stage, you will be adjusting each morning for the variation in the weather.

5/22/15 7:29 PM

I use a hockey puck on the counter, tap the pf a couple times to eliminate voids, and tamp on that. Weight of tamp doesn't matter, really, but using consistent pressure does. I'm a fan of a slight nuttating tamp-a little roll NSEW and then a polish.

5/22/15 7:37 PM

"I'm a fan of a slight nuttating tamp-a little roll NSEW and then a polish."


hmmm.... Ok then.. What does that even mean? ;)

5/24/15 7:55 AM

north south east west is about the best I can figure

I think men and women both enjoy a slight nuttating tamp.

Sorry again for trolling, this thread is too entertaining to avoid!

5/24/15 11:06 AM

I have to admit to the curiosity as well. ;)

Nuttating Tamp, Oy. ;) Actually having googled that it makes some sense so you do not pack to one side I guess...

5/24/15 1:23 PM

I was taught tamping is easier to get right if it's more or less level to begin with. I use Center, North, South, East, West. So when I fix for possible voids before tamping, I also make sure it's close to level to begin with.

After fixing the voids, how can you tell it's level? Rest the tamp on top. Run your fingers along the edge of the portafilter. You can easily see where it's high. Then fix those high spots BEFORE tamping.

6/10/15 12:26 PM

I'd not blame the grinder unless there were perhaps too large of a fixed increment in it's settings.

I've never fussed with anything beyond thorough hand-tamping of the heaping portafilter fill against the flat, flimsy inside wall of my grinder's grounds catcher, with perhaps a bit of scrape-off to leave the pack level.

Anyway, am able to home in on a desired flow rate after at most a couple of tries normally. A familiar process for packing/tamping should become it's own assurance of adequate process control after a short while.

I know I got it right when my machine's heater thermostat clicks off after 25 seconds or so, just seconds before I terminate the pull.

6/21/15 7:06 AM

Rob-did you get it dialed in?

7/7/15 9:05 PM

Not even close. I make a small change and it results is massive changes in the results. I may need to seek professional help.

7/8/15 6:39 AM

I didn't realize it, but the new Breville baskets are larger (the ones shipped with the 920's) and they like 21g or so...so start there, and adjust only grind. 21g, consistent tamp, adjust grind. The razor tool sets headspace, which is somewhat critical on the BDB. Keep in mind that grind can change from day to day based on temp/humidity/bean age, but it shouldn't change wildly.

Some good info on Coffeegeek on the BDB threads in the machine forum.

7/8/15 3:29 PM

This sounds as tough as reloading rifle cartridges. Only if I screw it up I blow up my rifle.

I just use a French Press and yeah I measure my coffee but I did it first so I could tell my wife exactly how I do it.

7/8/15 10:40 PM

quote:

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I may need to seek professional help.

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7/8/15 11:04 PM

I'll stick with building wheels, bikes and guitars...

Hope you get it Rob, I bet you are going to enjoy the prize ongoing...

7/26/15 6:59 AM

I'm using this machine this week. Truly kicks butt over my Gaggia Classic. I wish it was mine...



https://www.wholelattelove.com/products/expobar-brewtus-iv-r-with-rotary-pump