12/27/14 4:28 PM

I decided to stop hitting the ignore on the free DL update while at my Kids in Spokane. Non metered internet connection VS my 15GB per month tether via ATT.

I king of got used to it after setting up Elaine's Yoga and even started using more instead of the Classic Shell I had previously put on when I was 8.0.

Classic Shell would not load under 8.1, so I uninstalled it. Not only do not miss it, the system
is running noticeably faster.

I still ignore the Metro Desktop, using the Charm Search for quick access to Control/Device mngrs etc.

Just FYI

12/27/14 5:10 PM

I've seen a lot of jargon filled postings on this form in the past but this one has set a new standard. :)

12/27/14 7:05 PM

I just bought a new iMac. What are you talking about?

12/27/14 7:31 PM

Yea, what is he talking about?? ;)

We have discussed all these items I mentioned in other threads, at least I thought we did?

> I was using the Classic Shell by the recommendation someone here with Windows 8.0.

Yesterday I upped to Win 8.1.


Yoga=touch screen Lenovo I setup for Elaine's b-day 11-14. As discussed in threads.

Charm Bar and Metro are Win 8.*, as also discussed in previous threads.

12/27/14 8:38 PM

quote:

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I've seen a lot of jargon filled postings on this form in the past but this one has set a new standard. :)

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12/27/14 8:50 PM

12/28/14 8:25 AM

Once you go iMac, you never go back. All updates are free...

No malware, spyware or really no virus problems either.

I pretty much forgot everything about the guts of M$ products because I gave up on them. What he posted was gibberish to me also.


I am forced to use M$ at work on the desktop but my iMac and iPad are my go to items in meetings and such. I have 4 gig of .mil instructions and regulation on my iPad and have any of them to search via GoodReader at my fingertips. With airdrop, I don't even need anything besides my phone to port stuff to them. a quick email to myself, airdrop and wham, at my fingertips.

.mil prevents me from directly hooking up my devices to the network or my work PC. Security issues (not classified, just the above mentioned problems and hackers) We don't use thumb drives either.

12/28/14 10:32 AM

quote:

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No malware, spyware or really no virus problems either.

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12/28/14 10:42 AM

its the "going" that can be the hurdle.

imacs are premium products and priced accordingly, so often it can be a purely economic decision that keeps many people committed to the wintel ecosystem.

12/28/14 11:21 AM

I'm always surprised by the argument over Apple costs. Certainly if you are on the poor side, the difference of say, $400, between an $1,100 iMac and a decent Windows desktop with 22" monitor, is significant. But otherwise, amortized over the likely life of at least 5 years, it's pennies per day.

And while it's true that the OS X environment can no longer claim to be totally free of viruses, malware, et al, it pales in comparison to what is out there preying on Windows machines.

OK, I'll admit my bias - we own an iMac, iPad, and two iPhones. But I come by the preference honestly. For nearly 25 years I supported Windows machines from 3.1 to 7 in a tightly controlled business environment and I haven't been retired long enough for the nightmares to stop.

12/28/14 12:09 PM

I had 2 Winblows machines, and with kids using them the nightmares were nonending. I had trouble keeping the printers working, and the viri and such were nonending.

I spent as much time working on them as I did using them.

In 2008 I bought an iMac, and it has been a true pleasure to own and use. Never a problem. If my time is worth $1 per hour, the mac is the cheaper option. I am not a computer scientist, and don't want to be one. I just want a computer that works and is user friendly. We have 3 imacs at the moment, though I plan to sell the old one.

12/28/14 2:25 PM

I started on MACs. Fat MAC with Lotus Jazz was used mid 80s for my contracting data sheets to cut out a lot of accountant bills/time. Just handed him a disk fiscally.

I went on to make a nice living with PC based windows workstations and Novell and Window Servers. In my consulting practices, the platform that needed to pay me to diddle it was my favorite.
I also managed the sparse Apple and RISC based machine here and there.

Apple is beyond my cheap requirements, including the phones.

I get our PC devices on good sales usually about 1/2 the cost of what the Apple counter part could/would cost? The money not spent there goes into the bike N+1 fleet. ;)

My next move will be a device like Elaine's Yoga. Touch screen with a keyboard that folds under. The Yoga 2 with the 13.3" screen, i5 processor and solid state drive is looking good to me. About $900 space bucks...

12/28/14 4:03 PM

Windows 10 release is just around the corner unlike Apple which releases a new operating system (desktop) once a century or so. No need for a classic shell then. As for full computing, I'll stick to Windows. The benefits include more software options, better software, and an operating system that will run software packages I purchased more than a decade ago.

12/28/14 6:55 PM

"Apple which releases a new operating system (desktop) once a century or so"

That is really very far from the truth and a bit of MS fanboying, wouldn't you say? And this coming from a MS OS user, Me... ;)

12/28/14 8:54 PM

The release before os x yosemite occurred when.? Short answer Is a long time ago. Lets face it Apple is a hardware company. That is where they make their money.

As a windows os user, Apple iTunes and the Safari web browser are absolute train wrecks of software design.

I'll stick to using Apple's iOS products. I don't mind upgrading my apps so they will work on the latest iOS version. However, for desktop software l will stay with Microsoft as i am spending hundreds of dollars on software and not the 99 cent variety. That is a true hidden cost of Apple as they do not support backward capability.

12/28/14 9:06 PM

Mavericks is just a little over a year old.

I replaced an iMac after 7 years that still works fine. I doubt any windows computer will last that long, so that's a hidden windows cost.

12/28/14 9:18 PM

What makes you think PCs do not last 7 years?

What operating system are most Point of Sales systems using? How old are those machines? And how much use do they get on a daily basis?

What programs did you purchase for your original Mac? And how well do they work with the new Mac? Or do you just use the software that comes with the computer?

12/29/14 6:21 AM

Some observations on glorified typewriters:

1. I was a CP/M user from 1984-1990, when I switched to DOS, and then started using Windows in the 3.0 era, around '95. From '95 to 2008, I worked as a software engineer in a Microsoft environment.

2. My oldest son works for Apple. His personal machine and phone are Windows-based.

3. Like him, I've become OS-agnostic. Tools.

4. The real difference as I see it is that

a. Apple has very carefully managed the integration of software and hardware. Because they control both, and because there is little variation of internal hardware (and Apple knows what that is) they can build things that work very, very well.

b. Microsoft sells software into a market where there is tremendous variation in hardware. That Windows works *at all* on this wide variety is amazing. That it works *well* is fantastic.

c. So, A has build a system in which the hardware and software correspond very, very closely, while M has build a system that is effectively insulated from the hardware (I suspect this is the origin of HAL--the Hardware Abstraction Layer). Both are very good ways to go.

5. Most of the problems people do have, have nothing to do with the software environment/hardware they're working with. They have to do with user stupidity. Spend a lot of time around porn sites? You're likely to have problems--embarrassing ones. Click on everything? Guess what?

6. Mac v. PC is just another instance of the Shimano v. Campy wars...invidious comparisons designed to make consumers feel better about things on which they've already spent money.

7. Final observation: modern computers have more than enough power to do any reasonable amount of work (with the possible exception of gaming) you could want to do. I had an Acer netbook for several years (my spouse uses it now when she's not on her work laptop) running MSOffice 2010, including Outlook, just as speedy as you like. Worked well for movies, too.


Full Disclosure: My current personal machine is an old Lenovo "netbook"/subnote (X120e) I bought lightly used for $200 that runs Win 8.1/Classic Shell very well and which was on my back when I was hit by a car and broke my hip a couple of years ago. I will replace it when the MB dies, but until then, I don't really see any advantage to be gained. With any luck, my next machine will have a 12.1" screen (up from 11.6), no fan at all, weigh a little less, and run for 12 hours on batteries instead of 5.5. YMMV. I wouldn't kick a 13" Mac Air out of my bed, but I'm happy with what I have. Heh. I haven't even changed my desktop wallpaper in the past two years. Must be getting old!

12/29/14 9:55 AM

windows is pretty good these days. the days of chronic BSODs are long gone, standards compatibility is quite good, it just flat works anymore. i personally dont see alot of difference between windows and mac in that regard. and i'm a life-long windows basher.

usability is something else, down to experience and preference. mac has some good ideas, but i think the 1-button mouse is a crutch for dummies.

vulnerabilities is also something else, i figure if mac had the same market dominance in terms of total installations it'd have the same issues as windows.

after using my asus android tablet alot and dealing with the limitations of that OS, i find myself longing for windows!

12/29/14 12:48 PM

"after using my asus android tablet"


+1 for US, I looked and a few various tablets and it was clear to me we wanted a full windows OS. And my next one will be the same. The right hinge is getting wonky on my Dual Core Lenovo. Most of the thinner Notes I have used have been lost to hinge failure.

The Yoga with the 360^ fold back hinges I do wonder about longevity potential, time will tell. But when I was consulting, doing FEMA work or estimating with the notebooks, the open close cycles were many...

My previous Note to this Lenovo, an ASUS, is the longest use Note we have had with zero hinge issue.
Elaine used it until the Yoga Arrived for her B-day. The ASUS is on Computrainer duty for the duration since.

12/29/14 8:16 PM

A surface pro will handle the hinge problem rather nicely.

12/29/14 8:19 PM

walter, the iMac mouse is buttonless so to speak but in fact is a right and left click interface and works much the same way. It also does not have a scroll wheel but stroking the mouse like it does have one gets the same result. (that just reads awfully bad but gets the point across).

The trackpad is great, multiguesters (sp) are the bomb.

I post and surf using an iMac Air (11) pretty much exclusively.

12/29/14 8:55 PM

So is computer software!

Compare to Linux, Mac OS is unnecessarily bloated. But that pales compare to Windows.

But with hardware and memory being dirt cheap, the size of the kernel is irrelevant. Granted, the more lines of code, the more bugs it can harbor. Still, the compartmentalization made it possible to have large software that are reasonably stable.

That large software is how Windows achieve compatibility of a dizzying array of hardware and provide the platform for limitless software! It's the OS that includes the kitchen sink!

Say what you can against Windows (like Walter, I'm another Windows basher), I remember the days when Windows NT being the only game in town that has native threads, And some other lessor known pushing of the technological envelope, Windows made its share of contribution too.

At this point, all 3 OS work quite well. I no longer have any reservation using working in the Windows environment.

I think for a lot of us, we resent Microsoft forcing us to be the beta tester during the buggy days of Windows. But that was in the past.

12/29/14 9:05 PM

"So is computer software!"

Only implemented, never finalized basically... Like Doctors always practicing sorta...

12/30/14 1:08 PM

"...but i think the 1-button mouse is a crutch for dummies."

Walter - you may already know this, but the Mac and OS X support a conventional mouse. I retired the slick looking mouse that came with the Mac and connected an inexpensive HP optical mouse, with two buttons and a scroll wheel. I find the right button is fully functional in the Finder and most apps, offering quite a number of commands.