10/14/14 10:40 AM

Had a conversation about this with another rider yesterday when he suddenly veered left running me onto the grass off the paved path. I had decided not to say on your left, he was going straight and true until a bunch of glass we both saw last second was all over mostly the right 2/3 of the width of the trail. I had slower to 15-16 for the pass, he was going a little slower than that.

He apologized profusely, and I said partially my fault for not calling out on your left. But if it meant he did not wind up going into this huge glass field and probably getting flats and maybe ruining two tire I was totally OK with have been run off piste.

Subsequent conversation ensured regarding the call outs. How 1/2 the time you scare someone almost off the bike. He also said he did not always do call outs for that reason.

My position is 1/2 the time they work, and that last few times I did call out they did not for one reason or the other. So I was in non call out mode as I passed him.

I have bells on a few, but they seem to work very little as well. Or worse folks walking will stop dead and rotate left to see stepping even more over to the side of the path you would be using to go around them.

Anywho, discuss?

10/14/14 11:10 AM

My experience, bells are the best, but you need to ring them far in advance. Bell travel far, so ring it like you would shout at the top of your lungs. It has a much better result than loud shouting.

Yesterday, I really missed my bell. I was travelling at the Franconia recreation trail, the famous bike path in Franconia Notch. The trail banks and turns, is an absolute blast at high speed. But there're also tourist gawking at the color who WILL move unexpectedly!

So, as I approached any group, I had 2 options. Slow way down and lose my momentum for the next "bump", or call out far in advance so they have time to get out of way. I ended up calling out "Excuse me!" loudly, which achieved the result but made me felt really bad for being so rude. So I felt obligated to followed it up with a "I'm sorry for shouting", then a "Thank you very much". A bell would have worked a whole lot better.

10/14/14 11:16 AM

For all the reasons you mentioned and more I usually don't. Pedestrians, in general, are not focused on where they are walking or what line they are taking. They are usually oblivious talking to each other, lost in thought, or looking at/paying attention to anything other than the path they are walking. Calling out to peds generally results in them doing something unexpected which is a more dangerous situation for us both.

For other cyclists it's definitely a matter of the delta between our respective velocities. If you're on an upright hybrid with a basket on the front pedaling 39rpms and going 10mph, same situation as the pedestrians. If you're in lycra and the delta isn't that great I will call out but appx 1-1.5 bike lengths before our wheels overlap as a buffer zone for the startle factor.

It's a judgement call every time, though. And there are definitely situations where I call out one day and might not another.

I don't have a bell, never will. Bells are too reminiscent of kids in the 50s and there is still a pervasive attitude in the land that bikes are a child's mode of conveyance. Now an air horn? Yeah, that could work...

10/14/14 11:23 AM

I figure all faster should yield to all slower. And for yes!, yelling rudely at someone enjoying the serenity is just that, Rude.

There is also the component of the challenges of folks with pets. Most problematic being folks that take the dog off the leash when thy deem it is secluded enough. Which that decision is often misplaced IMO.
Or folk with 10' of lead out on their pets, and worse full leash extension and on the freaking phone.

But phones are overall, not necessarily strictly on the bikepaths, are 1/2 of my almosts.

I had a skid episode yesterday when a car thought while on the phone his right turn on red across the ped walkway [green to walkway] was optional. He got some NJ based colorful explanatory metaphor recited to him.

I still get a kick ;) out of the reaction my NJ mouth gets here in the PNW. Roll of the eyes, and seemingly the thought that this guy must be from the east coast. ;)

10/14/14 11:30 AM

I have a bell on my bike, and have for a few years now. It's a striker-equipped brass Crane, like this one:



(Only not so shiny anymore!)

It doesn't sound like a kid's bell. It sounds like someone has just sent a message direct to the brain, and it can be used from a distance, which makes it very nice and much more polite than yelling.

Unfortunately, it's not going to do much good about the folks yakking on their cell phones or wearing ear buds pressed in until their eyes bug out.

Aside from that, however, it works well, and people (aside from the groups described above) tend to turn, smile, and move out of the way when I use it. It works on the road (where pedestrians often walk the wrong way, or at least opposite to the way I was taught) and it works on rail-trails, one of which is on my way to work.

It also works when I see a car poking its nose into traffic ahead of me. I have to be closer than with pedestrians, but the sound of this bell can be heard inside cars.

10/14/14 1:25 PM

quote:

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people (aside from the groups described above) tend to turn, smile, and move out of the way when I use it.
....
it works on rail-trails,

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10/15/14 6:45 AM

I have bells on all the bikes I use to commute. The Crane works the best and I need to replace the crappy bell on the winter commuter before the snow flies. When I venture onto the bike path during commuter hours, the other denizens get it. I haven't used one on crazy weekends as I try to avoid the paths at those times.

The other night I had to swerve to avoid an unpredictable cager, nearly sideswiping the rider passing me. Could have been ugly as the delta was pretty great, me on a Robin Hood, he in a team kit on something fast. He apologized for not "on your left"ing me. I hope this will remind us both to warn others in the future.

10/15/14 6:49 AM

I wrote this a while ago. Feel free to, um, "chime in," if you like.

http://lawschoolissoover.wordpress.com/2014/05/09/the-speed-of-sound-on-a-wet-morning-in-connecticut/

10/15/14 8:58 AM

On the MUP's near me it seems 90% of the time when I call out "on your left" the peds don't really understand what you're saying, but at least hear something and know there's a cyclist passing. It's about a 50% chance they're going to move to the left, thus I'm prepared for that and have slowed. Seems you can call out on your left or "passing" and they'll still move from the right side of the path to the left. Pedestrians are very, very unpredictable.

I also will not call out sometimes, especially if I'm overtaking a solo blader or runner on an otherwise empty stretch, as by the time I call out and they hear and understand what I've said, it's a moot point as I'm already passed.

I do find a bell works well thought, but only keep one on the bike I use for NYC commuting, where its required. [/i]

10/15/14 10:27 AM

The whole point about the bell, and the reason they work well, is you get to ring it far enough ahead so the pedestrian has enough time to recover from being startled, and THEN step aside to let you safely pass!

To give them that much reaction time with my voice, I would need to shout at the top of my lung! It would get really tiring. (And I'd rather save my breath for hammering, not to mention save my vocal cord)

10/15/14 12:30 PM

A bell is a great idea on a bikepath.

There's a beautiful path along the Canada del Oro near my house on my 1 hour training loop. Well-paved, two lanes, good visibility. Although it's fairly uncrowded but there are runners, dogs, bikes, walkers etc. I'm usually going about 22-25mph using the tandem when we pass, its like a blink of an eye, so shouting is useless. A bell would work well.

I'll probably order one on Amazon.

It seems Crane offers it in brass, copper or aluminum. Which one why?

Sandiway

10/15/14 12:51 PM

See my blog for a discussion, or just take my recommendation:

A large brass Crane bell with a striker.

You want ease of use, volume, and tone, and the big brass Cranes give you all of those. The ones with a flexible pinger aren't as loud and are harder to use. I find the little bar-end sized bells to be useless, and aluminum just doesn't have the tone, IMO. Haven't played with copper, but I suspect that there's a reason that, historically, bells have been made of brass.

10/15/14 1:03 PM

OK, brass it is. Next problem: where to mount it on a modern bicycle?

Threadless headset and stem don't think it can mount there.
Headtube? Maybe way too fat.
Seattube? Way too fat.
Handlebar? Hmm, not much space.

What is the diameter of the clamp?
Can you use tie-wraps?

Sandiway

10/15/14 1:11 PM

Mounting is problematic in your case. I have mine mounted to the (conventional) stem shaft, but that won't work for you. The clamp on the newer models will fit 26.0 clamp areas, and doesn't take much space, but it can be a problem if you have one of the large-diamter bars. I have seen somewhere a steerer cap that's set up with a bell, or you could make one without too much trouble.

I have seen stems drilled out for bell mounting as well, but that's more problematic with lightweight threadless stuff...

I'll bet you could work out a mount with large enough zip-ties, but they're not always readily available.

Sigh. The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from.

10/15/14 1:53 PM

How about on the stoker's handle bar?

When YOU feel like ringing the bell, just say "ding"... your stoker will soon learn to ring the bell on cue...

I saw one of the tandem team do that way back ( when I lived in CA)

10/15/14 3:50 PM

quote:

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On the MUP's near me it seems 90% of the time when I call out "on your left" the peds don't really understand what you're saying, but at least hear something and know there's a cyclist passing. It's about a 50% chance they're going to move to the left, thus I'm prepared for that and have slowed. Seems you can call out on your left or "passing" and they'll still move from the right side of the path to the left. Pedestrians are very, very unpredictable.

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10/15/14 3:54 PM

I don't use a bell, but have seen some on the net that mount on the steerer and replace one of the spacers. Something like this

https://www.missionbicycle.com/store/stem-mounted-bell

But have seen others, and some that replace the top cap if I recall.

10/15/14 4:07 PM

For some reason they decided to use a mini version of the Crane striker bell, but it's better than nothing:

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/bellhed.htm

10/15/14 8:40 PM

quote:

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http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/bellhed.htm

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10/15/14 8:48 PM

Boy, the brass or copper would so 'belong' on my repainted Bridgestone 400 stylistically. ;)

<img src="http://coupekiss.host-ed.me/images/ttf/Gold-BR400-Fin-60b.jpg" width=584>


EDIT: Just eBayed a Crane Suzu Big Strike for the Bridgestone. Just had to...

10/24/14 11:58 PM

Mounted on the threadless stem.



Sandiway

10/25/14 3:37 AM

...

11/6/14 11:09 AM

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/the-worlds-best-bike-bell-42900/

11/6/14 11:32 AM

I'll bet it doesn't carry any more than my Crane, though it might be a touch lighter. But I have the last laugh, since I removed a couple of links from my chain this morning, thereby offsetting its advantage, while saving considerable $$!

11/10/14 3:35 PM

I yell "stick" and get ready to push off with a hand if necessary.