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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real10/12/14 1:37 PM |
Strava KOM hogs
So a local guy here, not me, is going around and using his end of season strength to take all the local KOMs. He will soft pedal out to the segment, hammer it (he is rail skinny and VERY strong) to take the KOM then soft pedal home. He admitted to me via Strava that is what he is doing.
I kinda think it is greedy and not cool. If a person takes a KOM by riding a solid ride the entire time it just seems more the spirit of the KOM competition. I have noted he is wind doping too. Waiting until the wind is right for the best speeds.
He will also go out of his way to hunt them all down, one at a time.
What do y'all think, is this outside the spirit of Strava?
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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4391
Location: metro-motown-area10/12/14 3:01 PM |
life is too short
to get overly worked up over losing some random KOMs.
fwiw...all your points are indeed valid.
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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real10/12/14 3:41 PM |
Not worked up, just a discussion point.
Worked up was when he CALLED me about a guy who obviously used a moto to take some local KOMs. He was all up and PO'ed about it. Why I don't know, the guy on the moto took my KOMs. I just flagged the rides and Strava deleted them.
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Tim123
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 252
Location: Adelaide10/12/14 4:29 PM |
I tend to agree with you, but unfortunatley there aren't any rules or ethics when it comes to Strava segments. I used to get a bit miffed about it as I thought a KoM done during an overall solid ride was a better achievement than targeting one specific segment and rolling home again.
But, as time goes on, have probably been guilty of that myself a couple of times but really lost some interest in the KoM's when half of them are done by A grade racers that are drafting in groups (mine are all solo) or when the Pros roll into town for the Tour Down Under and sweep up a heap of them so don't get so concerned about it any more.
Yes there is also wind drafting, have heard of dudes even wearing jackets on backwards to act like a sail, some people get a bit precious about it all I think and often the GPS is inaccurate enough that some KoM's that I lose I think might be a bit suspect, but don't usually flag them unless it is wildly obvious or that a moto was definitley used.
Strava segments have probably lost some of their meaning here too, as you know (Erik) from my rides, some of them have well over 150 segments or more where often on your rides there may only be a few so they probably hold more weight, if that makes sense.
I guess in the end I have just accepted that Strava is little more than a social game that has many flaws and a data collection tool if you like and treat it as such.
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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA10/12/14 4:35 PM |
quote:
I guess in the end I have just accepted that Strava is little more than a social
game
....
That's exactly what it is and there are those who will always "game" the system. Either accept it for what it is or lobby to have the rules changed.
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19083
Location: PDX10/12/14 5:38 PM |
thanks for the idea... I maybe will start using Strava again...
joking aside, I agree with you.
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sanrensho
Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 835
Location: North Vancouver10/12/14 5:56 PM |
Take them back. Recruit a few pacers if needed. I have no doubt many KOMs are set this way as well as by KOM hunting. That's just the way Strava is.
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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real10/12/14 6:29 PM |
Everyone of mine except one I had in Charleston was done solo.
Funny thing, he is so strong he takes them all, solo. He just is right now, riding routes just to take the KOMs he does not have yet. Kinda like the ball hog in a basketball game.
In fact that is exactly how he makes me feel about it. Like a ball hog in a basketball game...
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19083
Location: PDX10/12/14 6:30 PM |
Figure out a way to kick the ball over the fence. ;)
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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real10/12/14 6:54 PM |
yeah, delete all of my segments. I created over half of them...
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19083
Location: PDX10/12/14 7:04 PM |
Get one of these I got today, Local caught Salmon. Cook it and eat it. You will forget all about that asshole. ;)
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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real10/13/14 4:30 AM |
I may slow cook a small hog I shot last week for homemade pulled pork. You have yours, I have mine.
Pics of the hog are not for public viewing.
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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3713
Location: Brooklyn, NY10/13/14 9:19 AM |
Technology and I have parted ways somewhat. I used a heart rate monitor for a few years until I could tell what my effort level was without looking at my heart rate.
I picked up a Fitbit, used it for a couple of weeks, and decided that I ran and bked enough that it didn't tell me anything I needed to know.
I have no interest in knowing how pathetic my power output numbers are.
I ride for pleasure - I speed up when I want to go faster and slow down when I want to go slower. I rarely look at my speedometer. I don't recall whether I have a cadence function . . .
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19083
Location: PDX10/13/14 9:30 AM |
"I speed up when I want to go faster and slow down when I want to go slower."
I slow down when I try to go faster. ;)
"I rarely look at my speedometer."
Only use I have for a Speedo anymore is really when I take a turn on the front to make sure I stay a constant speed.
I found the entire Strava experience annoyed me for the most part.
My polar HRM had cadence until it quit again. So I am done, already bought two new cadence pickups once for two bikes and they worked for one season most. Just like Starva, I don't want to fuck with all that shit, I just want to roll...
This has been my best cycling year in over a decade.
HRM wise, I have had it on on my 4 hills rides recently. To my surprise I only went zone 4 once during climbs. Guess preemptive pace as a result of given readings proved valuable. Climbing with Elaine helps me a lot, as I back off pace to stay with her. It has helped me learn a little about my own pace better than the HRM has. Go slower to go faster etc.
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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6890
Location: Maine10/13/14 9:35 AM |
different approach
I go downhill when I want to go faster.
I'm usually going slow enough that there's no reason to go slower.
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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real10/13/14 11:13 AM |
I have to admit, I like getting KOMs. They are rare but I am fit enough to garner one every now and then.
I also the like the social aspect because I like to encourage friends who do well. I rarely get a chance a to ride with others so Strava lends the social aspects of group rides that I don't get very often.
I don't chase KOMs, If they happen they happen. I took a long time friend out with me today. He and I communicate via Strava and I knew he could hang these days from his data. That made the difference on the ride.
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19083
Location: PDX10/13/14 11:33 AM |
"I knew he could hang these days from his data"
I ride with folks that "can't hang' with me often. But yet they can because I don't go out of my way to make the ride invitation a negative experience for them by pounding them into the ground. Especially the case with Elaine. Even on the Crater Lake climbs she came away with feeling accomplished.
Point being, when I ride with folks, I ride with them.
Just saying, not criticizing ya Erik.
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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1724
Location: SE Pa, USA10/13/14 5:06 PM |
I can't get over the "look at me" aspect of Strava. Not a hater per se, but don't look at it or use it.
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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real10/13/14 5:45 PM |
@Sparky when I ride with my wife and kid of course I ride a pace that they can and will enjoy. With another competitive minded adult male, I ride my ride. I introduced him to the sport and took him out on his first rides. We rarely get to ride together and he would not have liked it if I soft pedaled on his behalf. Though I did when he could not ride hard anymore. He gave it his all, and when that was up, I took care of him. That is way rides should go. They make us stronger in mind and spirit.
Like you and Elaine, I go whatever Jeannie can ride and let her pick the pace. For one thing, "encouraging" your spouse can always have negative effects....
Dan the last 4 on the list are cheating in my book.
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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3236
Location: Midland, MI10/13/14 7:13 PM |
Computers
quote:
I rarely look at my speedometer.
I have never used a computer on my bike. When we had our kids on the back of our tandems I put a computer back there and had my daughter navigate for me when we went to tandem and LAB rallies. I did use an HRM for a few years but likewise it became a "so that is my HR when I feel like this" situation. Strava? Not ever, for sure.
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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1690
10/14/14 6:38 AM |
Put me in the anti Strava camp as well much for the reason that Greg mentioned.
I'm actually a numbers geek and use a power meter on all of my rides, but Strava just never appealed to me and after reading this thread it appeals to me even less.
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC10/14/14 7:55 AM |
quote:
I can't get over the "look at me" aspect of Strava.
I think the Angry Single Speed Guy nailed it: we can't be trusted to use it responsibly!
The idea of people like Erik, who doesn't have time to do group rides (or live in area with no club), Strava is SUPPOSED to fill in that void and form a virtual bike club/group rides.
But just like in a club ride, riders fight to get a couple inches ahead of each other!
(in my club, rides often breaks up into sub-groups going faster and slower, there's all that "showing off" at the end of the ride that "my computer show my average is .xx mph faster than the last time we did that loop" going on too! What undoubtedly, some of the riders were actually saying "I'm .xx mph faster than YOU"!)
So it's no surprise Strava users do the same! Only since they're not riding at the same time, there're a whole lot more gray area, with more question about what's acceptable behavior or not. And some riders will definitely play the "look at me" to the max!
quote:
If a person takes a KOM by riding a solid ride the entire time it just seems more the spirit of the KOM competition.
How's that different than a guy sitting in the back of a paceline without taking a pull on the way to the climb, and then speed past the group on the climb itself?
Sure, you're there and can SEE it's going on. But with Strava, you KNOW that's how to "get" the KOM! So, either you don't care to get the KOM, or you can do the same and get it back!
quote:
is this outside the spirit of Strava?
What's "spirit of Strava" anyway? It could very well be different people have different idea of what that is! You pal may be acting perfectly acceptable under a different assumption of what that "spirit" is.
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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1724
Location: SE Pa, USA10/14/14 10:17 AM |
April, don't get me started. We have a could-be great group ride that has two main flaws- 1) a guy or two that sit mid pack the entire ride, but then have to sprint to the coffee shop to get there "first" every time we go out and 2) guys that turn the second half into a race...
Why not race? The point of a "group" ride is to ride as a , well, group. Races exist. Strava KOM's are even more weenieish, for the reasons set forth upthread. If folks race a hill on a given day, together, the strongest guy wins. KOM's are pointless. As are guys that "need" a certain avg speed at the end of a ride, or worse, guys that will ride around the block or lot at the end of 48 mile ride because they "need 50 today".
As I get older, the more of a grumpy old man I become.
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