9/23/14 12:43 PM

The Discophiles and Cantiphobes will not be impressed by this, but so be it.

At D2R2, which features long, steep, gnarly dirt descents, my ancient (2001) Paul Neo-Retros got the job done, but were a bit creaky and balky. I am not convinced discs are the way to go on this type of bike, and even if I were, I wouldn't get a new bike for that reason. So I pondered a Canti upgrade, and when I saw that Campy now makes them, well....

So I now have them on the bike, and I haven't put them to the steep washboard test, but from an initial ride they seem significantly more powerful and smoother than the Pauls. And needless to say, they look much better (I got the polished silver, of course):

http://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/campagnolo-cx-cantilever-brake-set-silver

So I am happy (and looking good!) Looking forward to giving these a workout, as next year I have nowhere to go but the 180k.

9/23/14 1:02 PM

I wonder if that is a typo in the spec that the front are short pull and the back long pull??

When I put the V brakes on the gravel/adventure build recently, I used a pulley on the front and not the back. Figured I did not need the power in the rear.
I wonder if the spec is correct and similarly thought out.

I always hit the rear canti with my foot when they stick straight out like that, as an aside..

9/23/14 1:17 PM

I am trying some Tektro mini V CX 8.4s. So far on the repair stand I am unimpressed. They sit too close to the rim- the spec calls for 1mm pad clearance. I have not ridden them yet, but I suspect they will drag sometimes as return seems inconsistent on them.

I have some Pauls too- I like the idea of a Campi Canti but reaaly I cant see why the Campy would be any better.

9/23/14 4:04 PM

"spec calls for 1mm pad clearance"

That is my complaint with the cable ratio pulley and the V rakes on the Tandem. It is nearly impossible to have enough lever and brakes unless the shoe is so close almost any flex event causes a rub. Forget if a rim is not perfectly true.

9/24/14 5:55 AM

I've got Shorty Ultimate brakes on my 'cross bike, arguably one of the best cantilevers on the market. While they're somewhat better than the Shorty 6s that came on the bike, they're still cantilevers and they all suffer the same disadvantages. They're finicky to set up, they don't provide much clearance to the rims and the braking is anemic. I really don't think the brand makes any difference, as they all have similar limitations imposed by their geometry. You can make them any color and put any label on them that you want, but you can't get around these inherent design limitations. They can either be set up for good clearance and nearly zero braking power or higher power but nearly zero clearance. About the only advantages of higher end brakes are that they're lighter and use higher quality materials; the performance isn't substantially better.

My money says that the brake pads make more difference than the make or model of the brakes. However, I've found that when the pads (I recently switched to Kool Stop salmon pads) are new, clean and properly aligned with the rims, they feel pretty good. As soon as the pads get used for a few stops, the braking degrades. Mind you, this is with clean rims and they're worse when they get wet and/or mucky. I suspect that the Campy brakes will suffer in the same way once you have a few stops on them unless they've come up with some magic pad formula. Also, I've found that often the pads with the best performance in dry conditions (typically OEM black pads) are all but useless when wet, so make sure you try them in wet conditions before you trust your safety to them in a 'cross race or other event.

FWIW, in the MTB world, V-brakes (a.k.a. "sidepulls") were a significant improvement over cantilevers. They're much easier to set up and maintain, and their braking power is superior. I may resort to trying a set of "Mini Vs" in a last ditch attempt to improve the braking.

9/24/14 7:09 AM

My experience with canti's mimics Brian's. I had Shimano BR-R550 cantis on my Cross Check for a year or so and could never get them quiet and the braking feel and power were mediocre. I replaced them with Avid SD7 V-brakes (and appropriate levers) and the power and modulation went up dramatically although the noise continued.

Both brake types squealed only in front despite playing with toe settings, brake pads, etc. I think the mounting posts were a hair undersize on the fork which allowed the vibration.

9/24/14 8:31 AM

I'm not a canti fan, but those Campys look sweet.

9/24/14 8:38 AM

I have 18 broken ribs, collar one and scapula to testify to that fact, in my case they worked too well with NO modulation when I grabbed a handful of brake in a panic stop in November '12 took a long time to come back from that one :(

9/24/14 8:50 AM

See the first sentence of my original post.

Whatever, I've ridden various cantis for nearly 30 years and they work for me. The only brakes I've had that truly suck are my hydraulic disks, but we've been all through that and I have no interest in arguing.

Oh, one more thing - Steel is Real!

9/24/14 9:04 AM

The Tektro 720s on my Giant work very well. Salmon Kool Stops help the stutaion, but a lowish Straddle cable angle and the multi angle pad adjustment they have, they work. Especially off solid pavement, but on pavement they work better than the single side pulls on the Nago and Paramount. I do like the confidence the modern dual pivots inspire. But I have a disc road bike now so that is all behind me now. [knuck]

It seems the tandem shops still like them over V by a long shot.


Oh, and one more thing, Plastic ain't spastic. ;)

9/24/14 9:34 AM

quote:

---

It seems the tandem shops still like them over V by a long shot.

---

9/24/14 9:41 AM

Let's imagine they still work the few that were made previous to the disc tandems. ;)

9/24/14 6:17 PM

...and ordered some TRP CX8.4 mini V-brakes. I'll report back when I get them installed and give 'em a good workout.

9/24/14 6:38 PM

I rode my 8.4s today for the first time. I use Campy 11speed ergolevers and I ran them open to make sure I had enough pad-rim clearance. These are some strong brakes as I can lock up the front or rear with 1 finger. basically, they are so strong I'm not sura I can get used to them as no other bike I've had ever had brakes like this.

I am thinking about installing travel agents on them because I could run more pad-rim clearance and it would weaken them some and hopefully improve modulation. They are close to on- off, or much more so than any other brake I've had. The front squeels a little and I'd like some toe-in, and I may try thinline salmon pads on them.

I may also go back to Paul neo -retros....

9/24/14 6:40 PM

I had good luck with cantis on a couple of bikes (both touring, both DiaCompe sets) and I'm soon to set up another (Tektros, this time). But I don't like all the lettering on the Campy units...

9/24/14 9:28 PM

At the beginning of last cross season, I ditched my old LX cantis in favor of a set of mini-v's. I ended up getting a set of Sinz (bmx brand) with an 85mm arm length. They are Tektro made, and they even have the RX-5 (model on mini-v from Tektro) cast on the back of the arms.

I loved 'em. Seemed far less finicky than the cantis ever were, and definitely more powerful. I was living in AL at the time, and mud usually wasn't much of an issue during cross season. When we did get some mud, the narrow pad clearance did rear it's head a little. Now that I am living in the PNW, I will have to see if that becomes an issue.

Lower to mid range sets can be had for $25-40, so it's not that big of an investment to give it a try. I have a cheaper set of the Tektro 926 on another bike, and they seemed to work just as well as the more expensive set on my cross bike.

9/25/14 8:28 AM

Haters be damned, I'm liking these. Just out heading to the post office, I let it go a bit longer than usual on a downhill and hit the brakes moderately hard, and locked the rear wheel. Very smooth and easy to control, but stopped the bike pretty quick. Definitely stronger than the Pauls. I used more hand pressure than the one finger Dan mentions, but there was definitely more squeeze in the tank - not a panic stop or anything like that.

And Andy, in my aesthetic judgment the awesome shininess outweighs any issue with the text.

9/25/14 9:08 AM

but I still run canti's on my CX racing steed. (I probably don't go fast enough to do any damage in a panic stop in any of my cross races :)

Dan,

Enjoy your new shiny brake bling....

9/25/14 9:17 AM

nm

9/25/14 9:31 AM

Let's see a pic of those installed?? How low are you grabbing the straddle? [assumes]

I don't know why folks poopoo good cantis. My only complaint is the right rear sticking out. The pull ratio has a huge window of dialing the ration and power.

9/25/14 12:29 PM

OK, lunchtime iPhone shots. Don't ask me about the setup, I got the brakes through the LBS and let them do the setup. The brakes have a number of adjustments I haven't gotten into yet, including the straddle cable as you can see.

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=1ActGblq5bsWG0

9/25/14 1:56 PM

Look a lot better installed. ;) Thanks

9/25/14 3:11 PM

orange cross bikes are the coolest.

9/27/14 5:05 PM

The TRP mini-V brakes arrived today and I installed them when we got back from the Gloucester 'cross race. They are substantially better than the Shorty Ultimates they replaced, more like typical road brakes. I haven't tried them in wet conditions yet, so the jury is out on whether the brake pads that come with them will stay or be replaced by Kool Stop Salmon pads.

BTW, Linda finished the race with no broken bones and a smile on her face.

9/27/14 11:21 PM

"no broken bones and a smile on her face."


Doubly good news!