9/12/14 7:22 AM

A sad tale of the Merlin bicycle name (warning: somewhat long).
I'm looking for some opinions here, especially from the folks with legal background.

I own a Merlin Extralight frame that I procured new in late 2007 from the American Bicycle Group, which owned Merlin at that time. It was the basic Tom Kellogg geometry design and it ended up becoming my favorite ride of any bicycle I have ever owned. I really appreciated the responsive but neutral handling, performance, and modestly light weight.

Fast forward to mid August 2014, when I went out for a ride one day and noticed pronounced creaking noises, seemingly from the BB area, when I got out of the saddle to power climb over the crest of a hill. No noise at all while spinning seated. After some experimentation to make sure the creaks weren’t coming from the fork, bars, or saddle, I thought perhaps it was just time to retape the BB and clean/regrease the crank interfaces (the bike still had older Dura Ace 9 speed group with the Octalink BB design).

So, a couple days later, I put the bike in the work stand and removed the cranks and started to wipe off some grime around the BB, and to my horror, I spot a hairline crack through the backside of the weld that joins the seat tube to the BB. I fetch a magnifying glass and sure enough, there is a discernible crack smack in the middle of the weld fillet and it extends through about 40% of the seat tube junction.

Ok, I dig my owners manual and paperwork out of the file cabinet and refresh my memory that the owners manual states that all Merlin titanium frames are warranteed (to the original owner) for the life time of the frame. I’m the original owner and have the receipt with my name actually on it.

I proceeded to email Merlin (now owned by Competitive Cyclist based in Salt Lake City) about a warranty claim and received no response in 9 days, so I found a phone number on their website. The young man who answered the phone told me they had bought the name and he didn’t think they were honoring warranty claims from before 2012, but I could try. I remained polite and asked for the manager of the warranty department and was given his email address to which I sent a description of the problem and a polite request for warranty repair or replacement.

The first response a day later contained some hemming & hawing language, but said they would take a look and evaluate if I sent them photos of: the damaged area, the complete bike, a close-up of the serial number, and a copy of the proof of purchase. No problem… photos dispatched along with a polite request telling them how much I liked the frame and how I had always spoken highly of the bike to other cyclists.

The latest response (unedited except to blank out email addresses) is pasted in below:

Hi Lee,

Our frame builder doesn’t want to touch this one for a couple of reasons. The biggest one being, he doesn’t have any of the old geometry specs for Merlin. He also doesn’t like to work on bikes older than 5 years and your repair would be pretty expensive too.
We do try to help out in situations like this. We bought the name in 2011 and started producing Extralight frames in mid-2013. I would be able to sell one slightly above cost to you. If you would like to explore this option let me know.

Thanks,
John


John Kaye
Product Solutions Manager-Bike
2605 South 3200 West
Suite B
West Valley City, Utah. 84119
888-276-7130
801-736-6396 ext.5617


From: leewilk
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 1:32 PM
To: John L. Kaye
Subject: Re: FW: Merlin Extralight frame

Hi John:
Thanks for the quick response.

The attached photos show:

1) receipt dated 12/15/2007 (frame was sent to the Lutherville Bike Shop from the American Bicycle Group)

2a) Photo showing drive-side view of crack in weld between seat tube and bottom bracket.

2b) Photo showing non-drive-side view of crack in weld between seat tube and bottom bracket.

3) Photo showing close-up of serial number on bottom bracket

4) Picture of complete bicycle

5) photo of original tag with serial # and owners manual

I would appreciate anything you can do and information you can provide. I am really hoping the frame is judged to be repairable as it has been my favorite bike ever for handling, light weight, and performance.

Lee Wilk


OK. I don't even want to get into why their builder needs specs to repair a cracked weld or why he doesn't want to touch ti frames more than 5 years old. The bottom line is that I have a written warranty in the Merlin bicycle name for which I meet all qualifications. Is it common business practice these days to be able to purchase a corporate name only, slap an LLC after it, and then shirk valid financial claims against that name? Trying to figure out what course of action I might take, if any at all.

Lee

9/12/14 8:31 AM

2 years ago i sent a belgian frame from the 90s to a builder in CA who had no drawrings and he was able to completely replace a tube.

that is a totally weak-ass response and doesnt jibe with reality.

hope you get satisfaction.

9/12/14 8:40 AM

Well.... first that sucks and sorry to hear it. I am afraid as far a EL Merlin frame cracking there specifically, read, seen, and heard it often enough to know they all get there. Also read, seen, and heard how stiff those are and well loved.

If the original 'Merlin' went through liquidation bankruptcy, pretty sure you warranty ended there.

Fuking business model. At least Trek/Spesh/Giant et al, are not likely to go under and make a trillion consumers out on the tiles.

Again, sorry to hear it. Love to hear what constitutes 'slightly above cost'.

Either that or finding a skilled builder to repair it seem your choices unless you start over. What would a builder charge for a repair I have little idea.
I am curious about that.

9/12/14 9:05 AM

Appreciate the comments.

Sparky, I'm not sure it was conventional bankruptcy. The links I read sounded like Competitive Cyclist made an offer and bought the brand from ABG.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/03/news/ti-ing-one-on-competitive-cyclist-buys-merlin-from-american-bicycle-group_165369

I know stuff like this happens, but it still sucks. I am tempted (before I burn any bridges) to inquire what "slightly above cost" comes out to. Is that factory cost or bike shop cost? As to why I would want to own the new non-TK geometry when they don't want to honor warranty and have a questionable builder making statements that he can't repair without specs is another question.

An option I'm considering is to find a titanium smith and get a cost estimate... possibly Albert Bold who has been working with Ti motorcycle and bicycle parts for years is only 2+ hrs drive away in PA as I also have reason for other business in that area.

Lee

9/12/14 9:31 AM

"why I would want to own the new non-TK geometry when they don't want to honor warranty"

If cost is low enough to resell and possibly put said black ink towards a more final [relatively speaking] solution?

After getting said price, and if it was BS offering...

I'd start asking hard questions which lead them to me having a litigious path as my last option. Once the conversation goes in that direction I would point out the power of the internet/social media and free speech et al and how it works in one of two directions.

Good luck with it!!

EDIT: Browsing the subject nets some 'blame it on trauma' refusals on clearly non trauma related claims. A long history? I dunno.

I considered an XL back when the last [2000] LS Classic dissatisfied me regarding stoutness in the BB area. I was told the XL Merlin would be light and stiff, much more-so than the Classic. But that at my size and weight it would probably crack on me, just a matter of time. This from a LBS in NJ that was in the biz selling the high end stuff exclusively.

Thinking about it now, it has me wondering why the LBS would care if the thing was lifetime warranty?
Motivations to not sell it to me?

9/12/14 10:34 AM

I have three Litespeeds, a '96 Catalyst, an '05 Firenze and an '06 Tuscany. The '96 was purchased when Litespeed was still independent and the more recent two after the ABG acquisition. None of these have any problems at present but I've always wondered if the current "Litespeed" would honor warranty claims on any or all of them.

Yes, I have sales receipts and registered all three of them right after purchase so my paper work is in order.

9/12/14 10:43 AM

You need to find out the terms of the purchase and if they were able to evade warranty liability. I have no idea how to do that. Contact ABG?

If it is in warranty, then they have the choice to repair or replace it. if it requires replacing the seat tube then they would probably replace the frame, as Litespeed told me once that it is too difficult to replace a seattube.

Could it be possible that ABG is responsible for the pre-sale merlin warranty?

Whether their builder wants to touch it or not is meaningless.

Sorry about the situation.

9/12/14 11:16 AM

"If it is in warranty, then they have the choice to repair or replace it."

Or simply deny deny deny based on trauma/crash regardless of evidence. The INS industry MO?

It is hard to believe I will become even more cynical as I get even older. ;)

9/12/14 2:16 PM

Here a thread about an owner with a similar problem.

http://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/874349-merlin-bikes-back.html

Post #8 will be of interest to you.

9/12/14 2:29 PM

First, a company's assets can be sold with the original owners retaining liabilities...you could challenge but not worth your time.

Second, CC's response is pure BS. It needs a repair weld. Any competent framebuilder that has the ability to weld ti (can tig and backpurge ) can do the repair. Its really not that big of a problem. Call Albert, sure, he can do it if he's willing, he welds his own seatposts. The weld quality is excellent.

9/12/14 2:34 PM

INS model, with a massive helping of Bain Capital??

9/12/14 3:12 PM

You could enquire of someone who works with Ti, such as Bilenky, about repairing the frame. A few years ago I got them to retrofit S&S couplers into my Litespeed Blue Ridge touring frame, and they did a nice job on that.

9/12/14 3:52 PM

Thanks DF. Post #14 was pertinent too. Doesn't give me much hope for dealing with the CC group. I suppose it might be worth a shot to email ABG about the warranty too. Email is cheap.

Greg, thanks for the legal insight.

I inquired with Albert Bold and he replied within 30 min that he's almost sure he can fix it, so I emailed him back with photos of the damaged area and request for a ROM estimate.

Need to get the options lined up before I decide what to do. If AB can repair it for a reasonable cost, I may elect to keep the Kellogg geometry I like so much rather than fight a campaign where the best result is that I end up with a "low cost" replacement in a different geometry and build quality that I may not like as much.

9/12/14 8:19 PM

I believe that CC only bought the name "Merlin" in relation to bicycles and nothing else. The warranty is offered by the company, in this case ABG, who manufactured bicycles under a number of different brand names. If ABG sold the name, essentially licensed the name in perpetuity, but didn't sell any intellectual property, facilities, infrastructure, designs, manufacturing ability, sales contracts, or anything more than the "name" then I don't think CC would have any obligation to honor the warranty and, more interestingly, I thing ABG probably does have a legal obligation to honor the warranty since the warranty was a legal contract between you and the manufacturer of your bicycle and if they didn't sell that liability it's still theirs.

CCs reluctance to fix your bike may be justified because of two words: "litigious society." The USA is law suit happy when it comes to liability and insurance against such is insanely expensive. Some people do fix other people's bikes and, yes, fixing a broken weld on a titanium bike shouldn't be a big deal, but you're looking at a bike that was obviously not back purged properly when welded (or maybe under specced, but probably the former) which is likely why it cracked so it may only be a matter of time before another welds cracks and then you get into a whole legal battle about who is responsible for the second failure if the rider gets hurt. The original manufacturer will say, "but someone else worked on the frame, it's not our fault it broke, if we had seen the first crack we would have replaced the frame" and then the second builder has to defend their work and lawsuits get messy. And expensive. So, yeah, you can find someone who will fix the frame for cheap-ish. But I don't blame CC for not wanting to do so. In some ways it's impressive that CC offered you a deal on a replacement when, really, they have no obligation to.

9/12/14 8:45 PM

" In some ways it's impressive that CC offered you a deal on a replacement when, really, they have no obligation to."

Like to hear the cost on the offered replacement before I buy into that myself. ;)

Seems crazy my Strong made in a one man shop has a better chance of actually getting replaced on a crack than a zoot Ti Merlin. Not that little guys don't file..
Carl is one of the few I guess.

9/12/14 10:08 PM

quote:

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" In some ways it's impressive that CC offered you a deal on a replacement when, really, they have no obligation to."

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quote:

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Email is cheap.

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9/12/14 10:43 PM

It will depend on what "cost" is. If it's dealer cost then they are still making their margin though with more headaches than a usual manufacturer/retailer transaction. In theory, maybe, and none of us have the sale contract in front of us, they could probably legally tell any owner of a Merlin that, "we didn't make your bike and we have no legal obligation to honor any warranty attached to your bike. Here's ABGs phone number, give them a call. Sorry." To offer a "slightly above cost" deal on a bike seems better than nothing, assuming that the replacement frame would come with a new warranty honored by CC. I get the business side of it.

There is no real upside to offering a frame at their cost. They don't make any money and open themselves to all liability and warranty claims on the new frame. Offering it at dealer cost puts them into a good will position where the customer gets a bike for a deal and CC is in a good position business model wise to support warranty claims and liability for failures of the new frame.

"Slightly above cost" is pretty much standard, i.e. a lot of shop employees get to buy things for "cost plus 10 percent." It covers a a few expenses. To sell at "true cost" (labour and materials for the frame itself) doesn't take into account overhead, insurance, warranty, etc. For instance, "employee pricing" at most car dealerships is the dealer cost, not the manufacturing cost, it doesn't cost GM anything to offer "employee pricing" on their cars, but it's still a deal.

CC (probably) didn't buy any liability for previously offered warranties. It would have been in their rights to say, "nope, sorry, not us" So, in some ways it's impressive that CC offered a deal because with that deal comes all the new legal obligations and warranties that are attached to the new frame. In my opinion, impressive. In your opinion, it's bullshit. We both have assholes too, but the sun shines out of mine... ;-)

9/12/14 10:52 PM

"it was easily repaired "without spec", so you wouldn't need any replacement frame from them, however "slight" the markup above cost."

Okay, a cracked bb means it was probably improperly welded. If the head tube snaps off next and the rider breaks his/her neck and ends up in a wheel chair for life who's to blame? When the frame broke the first time it was an indication that the frame was defective and should have been destroyed. Repairing it is irresponsible from a legal perspective.

CC shouldn't have garbaged it all up with "we don't have the spec" etc and should have said, "your frame is defective, we don't feel comfortable repairing it. We can offer you a deal on a replacement or you can contact ABG about getting a free one through your original warranty. Here's their number."

9/13/14 12:39 AM

quote:

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that deal comes all the new legal obligations and warranties that are attached to the new frame. In my opinion, impressive. In your opinion, it's bullshit. We both have assholes too, but the sun shines out of mine... ;-)

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9/13/14 7:45 AM

Figured I might as well collect as much information as possible.

I sent an email to CC to tell them I was disappointed they weren't covering the warranty, but that I was weighing options and need to know what the bottom line cost to me would be to ship a new frame in my size (I note that manufacturer's cost is significantly different from cost to retailer).

I also sent an inquiry to ABG to report that this frame was procured from them under their ownership of Merlin and inquired if they are covering the written warranty.

I think I've gotten over the "this sucks" frame of mind and come to the realization that the situation is an unfortunate fact of conducting business and am now just trying to maneuver to find my best option.

9/13/14 9:42 AM

Curious, were the purchases of 'Merlin' due to financial duress, or Bain style takeover/gutting?

In my view, if they do not repair, they should replace this defective unit. At no cost to the original buyer. Shipping cost, fine.

Now if name 'Merlin' was bought after a bankruptcy and that name dormant prior, another thing. If that is the case, offering a new frame @ any significant discount is fair and good business.

Folks who buy gear at that level and price should probably not get the idea they are sitting ducks wallet wise. Else brands and the high end market suffers, probably not much though. ;)

9/13/14 1:41 PM

I had a similar experience with my titanium frame made by another company which was then acquired by another. It was easier for me to ship my frame to a shop in the Seattle, WA area and pay them 75 bucks to repair a crack at the point where the rear tube sleeves in with the drop out. I don't recall the shops name, but do recall it was recommended here. Many years later I am still riding that frame.

9/13/14 2:04 PM

If ABG will warrant the frame, I suggest you have them do the work. If you let someone else work on it, it will surely void your warranty if an issue arises in the future.

I'm surprised that ABG is still in business. How long can they go on selling so few bikes? Does anyone know anyone whos bought a Litespeed in recent years?

9/15/14 1:17 PM

I emailed ABG to inquire about them fulfilling the warranty on my frame. Just received the response below. Each party seems to point at the other. Abert Bold will fix it for about $150. Now, I'll have to decide how much of fight I want to pick.


Hi Lee,

thanks for reaching out to us.

I reached out to our warranty department concerning your frame, and this is the response that came back to me concerning your frame:

"The purchasers of Merlin have accepted the warranty claims liabilities.
And in fact, have replaced or fixed numerous since the acquisition in 2010."

I wish I had a better answer for you, but Competitive Cyclist did in fact agree to accept warranty claims for Merlin frames.

Thanks,
Greg Johnson
American Bicycle Group

9/15/14 1:24 PM

"e-mail is cheap"

Forward the e-mail from ABC to CC!