9/4/14 7:23 PM

General philosophical question: when is it time to get a new bike?

I have a 1998 Litespeed Vortex that is a great bike and my only road bike. 1" threaded stem, standard BB, horizontal top tube. The fork, headset, brakes, cranks, stem and seat post are all original (did replace the BB and big chain ring). Wheels have lots of miles on them but show no real signs of problems. 155,000 miles on the bike, 100,000 on the hubs.

The Campy Record (aluminum) crank is just about bottomed out on the drive side, so I am facing a new crank set. The question is - when is it time to get a new bike?

Reasons to get a new bike: all new equipment up to "modern standards", save a bit of weight. Is something major (like the fork or brakes) about to fail as well?

Reasons not to get a new bike: bike rides just fine, "it ain't broke" and is not the limiting factor in my performance, the cost of the new bike and then I'm left with a perfectly good old bike that is worth a lot but has no actual sale value.

I have no "upgrade fever" or desire for bling. A new bike would probably be a Linksey or a Moots as I do love Ti frames. How does one make such a decision? My previous bikes I owned for 15 and 10 years respectively.

9/4/14 7:33 PM

Go ride a few. If you don't feel they ride any better than your current one, well...

I've only "replaced" two bikes. bike #1: the downtube cracked from being dropped from a car; bike #2: a car ran over it

Not "upgrading" a perfectly functional bike doesn't imply I don't buy new ones. I got altogether 4 bikes. Each is different from the rest. That's not an upgrade. Though strangely, my new bikes do get used a lot more frequently than the older one.

9/4/14 7:39 PM

Pretty hard to test ride Linksey and Moots bikes. I like to think I know the "features" I would be gaining (lighter fork, ???) and I know that road geometry was optimized a long time ago. I doubt the ride would be any better from everything I've read. It's really a matter (for me) of whether my Litespeed has become functionally obsolete like my old steel frames with 126mm spacing had become.

9/4/14 8:01 PM

You and I look at this so differently that I doubt anything I can say will be useful. I love bikes and when I become aware of one I want, I buy it. Simple as that. I apply no rational process. Generally it is when some feature of design or function appeals to me. It has nothing to do with an existing bike being inadequate, though I may want to add a different type of bike. The bikes I ride regularly are steel, so I'm not a cutting edge tech guy. I buy to get stuff like Rohloff, generators, hauling capacity for errands, rando design, hand operated front derailleur, designed and built by Sachs, suitable for rutted dirt roads, etc. I just always know if I want a bike or not without thinking about it.

So I really can't relate to your dilemma. :)

9/4/14 8:08 PM

To add to what Dan said, I have a CAAD 10 that is 3 years old, tuens out that my LBS has a killer deal on a specialized allez race and I am trying to convince myself that my 3 year old bike is already getting over the hill :)
Granted it's not Ti, so maybe I do need to replace it.

Have you thought about keeping the frame but getting all new components/wheels?
sounds like based on what you are saying that might be the best route.

9/4/14 8:22 PM

"when I become aware of one I want, I buy it"

Spoiled douche. [snickers] I procure and build it, same thing really.

Allez: those E5 Smartwelds was one of the things I was getting serious about at first. But wavered toward the Roubaix obviously. Value ratio being something this spoiled douche dwells on to be sure.

That Vortex may surprise you how much it will still fetch to use towards a new bike.

But the Record Groupo has got even crazier expensive I think. But I am pretty sure your amortizing schedule is top notch. ;)

9/4/14 9:13 PM

...but I retired it and replaced it with carbon. As much as I like Ti, I won't go back to it for a road bike because carbon fiber is simply better.

The 1" steerer on the Vortex is a real limiting factor. Even with a better fork (I switched to an Easton EC90SL on mine), you still cannot get the steering precision that you do with a newer frame with a 1 1/8" or tapered fork. You also won't believe how much stiffer carbon frames are in torsion. This is beneficial for both power transfer and handling.

Depending on your preferences, you can go with a race frame or a more comfort and endurance-oriented model, without any significant loss of desirable characteristics.

Of course, you'll save a fair amount of weight, too.

If you insist on a metal frame, the new generation of aluminum frames is approaching the performance of carbon in many respects. As yet, no one is manipulating Ti in a similar manner and I'm not sure that it's possible. I would probably go the Al route before I'd spend the extra for Ti.

9/4/14 9:36 PM

Tarmac maybe? Base SL4 model is the Sport. $2100.00.

Maybe do what I did, base model and sell the cheapo group part/wheels or make a beater with them and get an 11 Record or Chorus groupo and wheels and build it if you got the wrenching skills.

On the phone today Specialized Rep told me the base model SL4s are not less stiff that the higher end and S-Works bikes/frames, just not as light.
And the S-Works lack the aluminum in the OSBB shell having a carbon sleeve. Some more size specific tweaking etc in the upper line frames.

But ride one, the SL4 Roubaix totally was/is way stiffer than I expected. And I ride a big bike and am 210.

BTW, you would be in for a LOT lighter bike. A new Tarmac frame and fork with HS probably weighs same as your frame only??

9/5/14 12:52 AM

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I love bikes and when I become aware of one I want, I buy it.

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9/5/14 3:22 AM

The only thing you will find improved on when shopping for a new bike is the front end handling. Bigger steerer tubes have done a lot.

If you are go fast inclined like me, aero bikes are the real deal. They give you the performance you had in your younger years.

That being said, your Vortex is timeless, if the frame and fork are still in perfect condition keep the bike and buy new "Stuff" for it.

Start with a new cockpit using NOS stuff off of fleabay, a new stem and bar are in order. Then get a new groupo, wheels, saddle and seat post.

If your old bike looks worn, with Ti that is an easy fix, strip the decals, get some scotchbrite pads and have at it. Finish with the all the buffing going the exact same way. If it is a polished frame then get some buffing balls for a drill and polishing compound, it will look like a mirror in no time.

My point, the bike was TOP shelf when new and you bought it because it would last a long time, so let it.

You can easily build that frame into the sub 17lb range with new parts BTW.

9/5/14 5:10 AM

There is also a big difference in overall torsional and lateral stiffness (head tube, BB, chainstays) with carbon frames compared to the Vortex. I had no idea how (relatively) whippy the Vortex is until I road a modern carbon frame. Both of mine (Look 585 and Cannondale SuperSix HiMod) are much stiffer in all respects. Of course, being racing frames, neither is designed for comfort, though they both accept 25c tires which take the sting out of the ride without compromising the desirable aspects of their increased stiffness. With the exception of comfort, there isn't anything about these two bikes that isn't superior to the Vortex. I rode that bike for 13 years and loved it, but bikes have evolved considerably in that time. The frameset now hangs on display in the basement and I won't part with it.

If I was going to buy a new road bike or frame, the Cannondale Synapse would be at the top of my list. I have yet to ride one, but the reviews all indicate that it possesses an amazing combination of lateral stiffness and vertical compliance. Carbon allows designers to build bikes that way to an extent that nobody has with Ti, at least not to-date. I also love the way my SuperSix handles and would like to maintain that in any new bike. The GT that Nick spoke of is also a top candidate, especially if I succumb to the siren song of disk brakes for the road.

That said, I'm happy enough with my current road bikes that I'm not in the market for a new one at present. I'm going to wait for road tubeless and disk brakes to mature a bit before making any decisions on a new road steed.

If you were going to keep your Vortex, the single biggest improvement you could make to it is to replace the Look HSC with the Easton EC90SL. The Look fork is a noodle and the Easton will transform the front end. It can't bring it up to carbon frame standards, but the difference is still pretty dramatic.

9/5/14 6:48 AM

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I've been thinking of having a test ride on one of these when they land in the shops here[.]

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9/5/14 7:17 AM

I have a '96 Catalyst that I bought new and still have with 70,000 miles on it. It's only "defect" is that I bought a 55 cm and should have bought a 57 since I have long legs for my height (5'9") and getting the bars at a comfortable height (~40 mm below the saddle) took a rather tall stem. It's certainly functional but a bit awkward.

In 2006, Colorado Cyclist had it's Litespeed franchise pulled and was closing out it's remaining stock at great prices. i jumped on the opportunity and bought a 57 cm Tuscany complete with Easton EC90SLX fork and Chris King headset for $2200. Later that year I also bough a 57cm Firenze with the same fork for only $900! I certainly didn't need two new Litespeeds but I couldn't possibly pass up that bargain.

Other than a more suitable size, neither of the two newer frames ride significanlly different from my Catalyst. That may be more a matter of my inability to note small differences and my age and lack of power mean I don't stress them much.

However, i've never regretted either purchase. The 1-1/8" headtubes opened up a whole world of possible forks, headsets, stems and handlebars the older bike wouldn't fit.

Recommendation: Buy a new bike and keep the old one intact. N+1 is good within reason.

9/5/14 9:04 AM

+100 on the stiffness. Especially the front ends.

Yesterday I took the 05 Roubaix out after 3 rides on the SL4 since I got it on Sat. Cush, in a word.

If you don't push watts alot, grab the drops and sprint semi often, you may miss the cush.

But even the 1-1/8" front end last Lightspeed I had in 2001 [a Classic} does not come close to the SL4 or my 09 Scott when you do a Cippolini on it. It moves more sure, and I am big. But is not the end of the world either. If you spend 99% of the time hauling comfortable like, that 99% on a stiff bike may be the compromise possibly.

This new SL4 Roubaix is VERY stiff, way more than I ever expected. So much so I called Spesh yesterday
and told them I did not need another race bike, and my new touted comfort Roubaix will probably not fulfill the purpose I purchased it for.

Spesh is sending me a CG-R seatpost for free. Goffy looking post, but if it works and the 18mm movement does not create bounce issues, maybe I will be happy.

I may sell the Scott too now. Only thing it has on the Roubaix SL4 is lighter weight by a few lbs. like 4-5 lbs. Which sound like a lot, but really is not significant in function. Can you believe I typed that? ;)

But, if someone can tolerate a too small Catalyst for 70k, it shows just how flexible and acclimating the human body can be to a wide swing of performance.

I test rode one once and at my girth and bike size, it was apparent it was not even close enough to stiff enough, and would up with a Classic. Time showed that was not stiff enough really either, and I got the new gen Classic which was an improvement, But then I ordered the Strong, and after a few rides on that and I sold that last Classic too.

"Stiff enough for what" is really what needs to be pin pointed. If it is for a review you may post, bad reason IMO.

Summing up, the only real reason to let the Vortex go to me is the 1"steerer. But if you truely love it for fit and function, do what I did to my Strong. Make a SS out of it with a ENO white hub/wheel.
It still get lots of love early in the year. ;)

BTW; still have the 6/4 Blade, stiffest Litespeed I have ridden by a good amount. Thank God 25mm tires fit on it. ;) Not that I have made a commitment to ride it and Tt again...

9/5/14 9:10 AM

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N+1 is good within reason.

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9/5/14 9:21 AM

N+1, and repeat.. But I plan to sell a few. ;)
But in my defense, I drive a 20 year car with 230k and my MotorCycle is a 1982.


BTW, I am seeing pertinacity for stiff race carbon stuff. Even the Domane is touted to have a concrete front end.

I only add this because this is maybe not what you or others really want. And really what other choices make sense other than carbon is a realization I think I have come to.

And I have seriously thought about another Strong and even went back and forth with Carl a bit. So that may be an option for as well. He is quite capable of tweaking a build to not be what everything else is... If in fact everything else is following a trend that does not fit into what yo will be riding for the next 10+ years. Too stiff someplace...

Last edited by Sparky on 9/5/14 4:18 PM; edited 1 time in total

9/5/14 9:50 AM

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N+1, and repeat.. But I plan to sell a few. ;)

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9/5/14 11:18 AM

Aside from what others have said about steer diameter, if you're not interested in carbon, there really isn't much advantage in a new ti frame-unless you wanted something custom, and it sounds like you have your fit dialed. Hang a new gruppo on it and go...

Agree with the others about carbon evolution...but if you happen to fall w/ your ti bike you'll just pick it up and go, carbon bikes are not always that lucky.

9/5/14 6:23 PM

If a Roubaix is of interest:
Specialized Roubaix SL4 Expert Ultegra 2014 Free shipping, 11 speed Ultegra [cables] SL4-10R NON disc bike. Fulcrum S4 wheels.

$800.00 bucks off free shipping $2999.00

http://www.bikebling.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=Specialized14-R-SL4U2

9/5/14 7:11 PM

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If you were going to keep your Vortex, the single biggest improvement you could make to it is to replace the Look HSC with the Easton EC90SL.

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9/5/14 7:34 PM

Met a guy on the ride today that just moved from CT.
He was on a MTN with slicks. And only when we got into the big rings into the wind he fell off.

Talking with him, he was asking a ton of questions about the Scott. He got a new bike and rode it for a few days and returned it, said too small.

He tells me his Sachs is in CT he got 35 years ago. Seems the Coke team he rode for had all Sachs. Tubulars of course.

I strongly suggested he get his Sachs over here, or have it dropped off at a CT LBS for break down then shipped to Joe Bell or Fresh Frame etc. Which ever place can do a cold set then paint.

Then put new groupo/wheels and that would be better than any of the plastic bikes on the market pretty much. By the way he rode the weight would mean nothing.

9/5/14 8:06 PM

As been discussed in length here, weight is overrated.

In many riding conditions, flat, roller coaster, weight really dosen't matter at all. It's only in sustain climbs of significant elevation gain that weight gets to be important. Even then, if speed isn't the goal, the difference merely means one goes a tad slower which maybe a... non-issue.

What makes a bike "fun" however, is an entirely different matter!

9/6/14 4:12 AM

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He tells me his Sachs is in CT he got 35 years ago. Seems the Coke team he rode for had all Sachs. Tubulars of course.

I strongly suggested he get his Sachs over here, or have it dropped off at a CT LBS for break down then shipped to Joe Bell or Fresh Frame etc. Which ever place can do a cold set then paint.

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9/6/14 4:50 AM

Never been there, but that's where my nephew got his Pure Fix flip flop urban bike which is a pretty cool bike for $300.

9/6/14 5:13 AM

Replace the crank and ride.

You don't want a new bike, so why get one?

Don't know, but I doubt you'd find a new bike significantly better functionally.

I'm pulling out my '99 Ti Serotta Hors Cat for a Hillclimb next week (it's my "climbing bike" because it's set up with extreme low gears, it's not that light). It's certainly a better bike than I need, I just got interested in a couple of other bikes for different reasons.