5/19/14 5:51 PM

Grettings, all. Just got back from 3 weeks in Italy- 2 for work and 1 for me. I've decided that the usual lack of good espresso in my life is something that needs fixing. Of course, in Italy, there is great espresso on nearly every corner but here one must make that happen for him/her self. So I'd appreciate some recommendations for espresso machines. I know there's a ton of options out there so I'll say that I am not concerned about steam. I don't drink milk so caffe lattes etc won't be happening. This will used solely for espresso shots.

Not interested in "pod" machines like nespresso. I have an excellent barratza grinder so I can do my own grinds. :)

BTW- Sparky, revisited that spot from the pic you like so much but I didn't have a bike with me this time. Probably should have rented one.

5/19/14 6:03 PM

Ahh the orange fixie shot.

Since when is anything coffee OT??

5/19/14 6:11 PM

"Since when is anything coffee OT??"

True.

5/19/14 6:13 PM

What is your 20 these days?

5/19/14 6:16 PM

Seattle

5/20/14 12:22 AM

I'd pay more attention to the grinder that you use than to the machine.

My 23-yr-old Krups pumper has no adjustments for pressure or temperature, only an idiot light and choice of two sizes of portafilter.

Yet it makes perfect espresso once I get my heavy/noisy Cuisinart grinder dialed into each new bag of beans. Grind is crucial to control the flow rate in my case.

I paid a total of $19 for all this equipment at Goodwill:
$6 for the 1st Krups machine with large portafilter,
Then $6 more for a 2nd, crusty Krups machine (bought only for the 1st machine's missing small portafilter, I donated the machine itself back immediately, as I was on my bike that day),
Finally I paid $6.95 for my big Cuisinart grinder, which appeared brand new.

I should add that I actually rode my bike home down hwy49 with Krups #1 hanging from my left handlebar in a triple-bag, that dog is heavy!

5/20/14 4:13 AM

Yes, I know it's not "true" Espresso. But it's pretty good, and the equipment is simple.

5/20/14 6:29 AM

The Barratza is a great start, particularly if its a Vario.

I've had an Oscar, Acaso PID and now a Breville Dual Boiler. The Breville is simply amazing but pricy, although used ones can be had reasonably (watch out for leaky 3 way valve orings, fixable). The Acaso is good value for dollar.

There's always the PID'd Sylvia, but they're getting pricy as well.

A Gaggia classic with an added PID is a good budget choice.

5/20/14 7:24 AM

It's not just about the machine, it's also about the training.

I took "a class" in espresso last summer - apprenticing to someone really good. Someone who judges competitions at the international level. It was a real eye-opener. Very humbling. I ended up tossing a cheap $300 espresso machine and $90 grinder. There was no way to get it to produce anything close to what I was trained on.

You need a really, really good grinder. Something that can grind as fine as women's cosmetic face powder...

Then you need really good espresso beans. This is not easy to find. Maybe easy in the Pacific Northwest but I have to get mine by mail order.

The person who taught me gifted me a spare Gaggia Classic afterwards.
But I had to buy my own grinder. I got a Mazzer, same grinder I was trained on.

Then you need a portafilter with the bottom that's milled out so you can't cheat. Bottomless.

Then I needed a little scale that's accurate to 0.1g.

And a timer.

Then I needed a 2oz shot glass with markings on the side.

And I needed a calibrated 30lb tamper.

Then you need to calibrate the grinder each morning due to changes in humidity and temperature.

And then you need a strict protocol in order to get repeatability. To see those dark speckles. Deviate slightly and it won't be the same.

To debug your shots, you need a few other shot glasses so you can pour 1/3, 2nd 3rd, last third into separate glasses. Then you can tell what's going on in each 3rd.

Then you can get close to what you experience in Italy with that one euro shot.

My coffee friend will visit me this summer. And I hope he brings his spare Expobar Brewtus IV-P and somehow forget to take it home...

5/20/14 8:57 AM

Check out the forums and reviews at coffeegeek.com.

I have a Rancilio Silvia that's still going stong after 8 or 9 years. It's a little fussy (I temperature-surf -- many people add a PID temperature control to this machine). I'm not sure it's the best value any more, since the price has gone up to around $700, compared to <500 when I got it.

Which Baratza grinder do you have?

A few responses to Sandiway's points:

The grinder needs to go fine, but consistency is important too (all particles about the same size). And maybe it needs to be ABLE to grind as fine as face powder, but that's not the grind you use -- that would choke the machine.

Scale is cheap, and very much worth it if you want to be consistent.

You don't "need" a naked portafilter, though it's cool to watch the stuff pour out through one. But definitely not necessary.

You don't have to calibrate the grinder daily. I adjust when I get a new batch of coffee, and watch for changes as the coffee ages.

Good coffee beans are not that hard to find. I order by mail, too, but I'm sure in Seattle there are lots of great choices. Again, consult the coffeegeeks.

You can go bonkers over this stuff, but it's not that hard to set up a system that makes decent shots consistently. As you say, in Italy there's a coffee bar on every corner, but you don't get a "god shot" every time even there.

Enjoy. My two doppios every morning are a great pleasure (and an addiction ;-)

5/20/14 8:57 AM

Sandiway, you're describing the Japanese Tea ceremoney? ;-)

I think you missed one:

"Then you need really good espresso beans. "

Then you need to get good expresso beans FROM THE SAME SOURCE consistantly!

Changing bean type or source would require the recalibration of EVERY SINGLE stepe in that ENTIRE process!!!

5/20/14 9:05 AM

Grinder is a Baratza Virtuoso Preciso. It's a couple years old but is fantastic. It does French Press through Turkish...

And Sandi I know your obsession with perfection. I'm pretty sure I'll never reach that level. I'm looking for a good shot, it doesn't have to be perfect every time. ;)

5/20/14 9:34 AM

Educate me please. Why is my $22.00 grinder no good. I use it in espresso grind mode to make Flax dust out of seed, grind all my coriander, celery seed, rosemary, etc etc into fine powders when it suites. And coffee for dusting the tops of a few things I cook/make.

Mainly a med/fine grind for the coffee we make, and I drink too much of. Elaine and I both do not care for grinds near fine and certainly not extra fine for out daily dues. I personally find even a normal cup of coffee @ star bucks is ground to fine. I ask for them to drip me a fresh cup with a less fine grind. That murky silty coffee 'texture' gives me no pleasure.

Last edited by Sparky on 5/20/14 9:45 AM; edited 1 time in total

5/20/14 9:37 AM

Virtuoso Preciso; I've heard that's a winner.

5/20/14 10:37 AM

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Educate me please. Why is my $22.00 grinder no good.

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5/20/14 11:07 AM

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you're looking for, requires a grind that is quite fine but also consistent in particle size

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5/20/14 11:31 AM

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Then you need to get good expresso beans FROM THE SAME SOURCE consistantly!

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5/20/14 11:44 AM

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I would think the consistent in particle size is always required for any kind of brew?

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5/20/14 11:54 AM

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I'm looking for a good shot, it doesn't have to be perfect every time. ;)

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5/20/14 12:28 PM

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With espresso, too many "fines" will make the puck compact too densly, and the water will either flow through too slowly, or be blocked entirely.

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5/20/14 1:07 PM

" doesn't produce the RIGHT particle size AT ALL, I don't see why the machine would clog if only some random but presummably small percentage of particles are of the wrong size."

Seems like an inconsistent grind would have the fluid not equally press through. Thus if it fluid favors a channel in the grinds, wash out all the flavor in that spot and not taste as good not having 'used' all the coffee grinds in the pack, or taste like crap. ;)

5/20/14 1:34 PM

Man, I'm feeling lucky to get the years of good results that I get with my cast-off equipment.

I have to agree though that at my rate of usage, the grinder needs to re-adjusted for every single bag that I buy.

But it's so simple to just repeat the same filter pack method a few times, adjusting the grind until the 25-30-secong pull produces the ounce or two of sauce.

Sour espresso is what I get when I use my stove-top Pezzetti for the occasional pre-ride, run-to-the-john quad, not that there's anything wrong with that...

5/20/14 2:02 PM

Thanks to this thread, I pulled out the Moka pot and brewed a cup with Lavazza beans. Poured over ice and now enjoying with a small shot of simple syrup.

5/20/14 2:05 PM

Which reminds me that I haven't made a shakerato in a while...

5/20/14 3:32 PM

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I don't see why the machine would clog if only some random but presummably small percentage of particles are of the wrong size.

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