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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC10/15/13 7:48 AM |
Disassembling Shimano shifter?
My right shifter is very, very stiff. It still shifts and pulls the cable, but requires significant force to do so. Nor does it return without help pushing the other direction. A quick online search of others' experience shows a quick disassemble (and perhaps some cleaning of the inners) might just do tthe trick.
But like all other Shimano parts, this one requires a special tool called the E-ring puller for disassembly (and another similar one to re-assemble)! Although some people reported success with various ready tools. I thought I ask the experts we have here. Someone here might have done the same disassembly/assembly, with or without needing the special tool?
(origin of the stiffness: it took a long slide on the pavement).
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Kramer
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 121
Location: Richmond, VA10/15/13 8:48 AM |
What shifter?
If it is a 10-speed Shimano shifter it may just be the cable fraying. It happens right at the level and it breaks the end off and it can be difficult to remove.
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19092
Location: PDX10/15/13 10:08 AM |
Don't assume it is not the cable/housings. When was the last section by the derailleur cleaned and lubed?
Seen kinks cause same issue.
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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3345
Location: NorCal10/15/13 12:10 PM |
Assuming that the lever itself doesn't return, that does sound like the all-too-normal "gumming" of the lower-quality lubricant that all but the top-flight (XTR, DuraAce) components are built with.
Luckily it is still shifting, as the internal pawls have only very light springs to allow shifts to happen, so there is no additional force that can be applied externally to initiate the kind of movement that might assist in the penetration of lubricant.
But in this case, the lever pivots themselves, not the pawls, seem to be the culprit, as well as the cable spool axle area, all acting to increase lever effort and slowing the spring-assisted return.
This no doubt is worsened by the onset of colder weather, and the shifters probably still work normally at 80 degrees, but while everything still at least can move, an aerosol oil product probably stands the best chance of reviving cold-weather performance.
By "aerosol oil product", I'm not referring to a product like WD40 that's more than 90% solvent. There are more substantial spray lubes that are specifically non-thickening which will free things up for long service.
The castle nut can be removed with a ground-down large vise grip, enough to allow the jaws to be repositioned 10 or 15 degrees so as to move the nut on the center spindle threads that are also clogged with a Loctite-type product. I would not do this disassembly though for several reasons learned from experience, unless a different symptom appeared.
A spray lube can be introduced into the guts of the shifter mechanism, but should only be done with the brake lever held against the bar and with the bike pointing downhill 30 degrees, which will prevent dripping lube from finding it's way under the lever hood, a condition that will require a complete hood removal and bar re-taping.
A heavy application of lube can literally flood the entire innerworkings of the shifter and stands the best chance of quickly restoring freer movement.
And, as others have noted, a frayed cable can at time produce any number of different symptoms, so unless the cabling is very new, be prepared to at least pull the cable for inspection and re-install it with a generous coating of plastic-friendly, light suspension grease or the original Jonnishot shifter lube, either of which will have the cable sliding freely in it's groove in the plastic shift lever body, especially since your spray lube may contaminate this friction-sensitive area.
Note that you don't want too much grease to clog up the cable housings, they are usually pre-lubricated as Shimano advised when the 10s gruppos were rolled out. The grease is for where the cable slides in the shifter.
I've been using this product for restoring STI's and like it best:
Last edited by dddd on 10/15/13 12:32 PM; edited 2 times in total
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC10/15/13 12:29 PM |
This didn't happen over time. It happened after a crash.
And the resistance is VERY HIGH. So high I doubt I could actually shift while riding without jerking the handlebar
So I doubt it's just gumming of grease.
However, I feel no grinding when it does move. And I can see the cable move the deraileur and the shift happens. Also, the return is relatively easy (with finger assistance).
To be honest, it feels like something got knocked slightly out of alignment. But there's no visual sign of such...
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19092
Location: PDX10/15/13 12:41 PM |
crash=toast to a high likelihood.
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC10/15/13 1:02 PM |
The question was
Had anyone disassembled Shimano shifter without using the special tools
(p.s. 9 speed)
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19092
Location: PDX10/15/13 1:09 PM |
I have, and it never made it back together again FWIW.
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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2816
Location: hillbilly heaven10/15/13 2:33 PM |
Maybe I missed it, but is it a mtb or a road shifter?
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC10/15/13 2:45 PM |
Road (STI)
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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6894
Location: Maine10/15/13 4:30 PM |
Never trust a Shimano shifter!
Oh, I thought you said "dissembling"...
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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3345
Location: NorCal10/15/13 6:11 PM |
9-speed, these are perhaps the simplest and most-serviceable.
They are straightforward inside, but don't trust exploded photos from someone else's rebuild unless you first confirm the very same part number, as there are different versions of 7700 STI levers.
I might first start by removing the front faceplate and spring hardware since that was likely most-affected by the crash, but also inspect where the impact actually is evident, for any distortion of the metal or any bending of the small (upshift) lever.
See:
http://www.norvil.net/pedal/service/shimanosti/removal.php
and:
http://www.norvil.net/pedal/service/shimanosti/duraace9sti/strip.php
I kind of found myself immediately agreeing with "crash=toast to a high likelihood", but even without knowing April's work history she seems to me like a persistent type who well might get the whole works back together, actually working.
Getting the castle nut off will be the first test of will, and reminding here that it also must of course later be fully tightened. The brake lever return spring also will need to be coaxed into a functional orientation when the lever pivot is refitted. There are special tools for both of these procedures, but I've done without.
Also, there is a 9mm thin wrench that is most useful for readjusting the main lever's ball-bearing cones, but I can send one out free if/when the diagnosis warrants the job completion.
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC10/15/13 8:23 PM |
Thanks. That's kind of what I'm looking for!
quote:
I kind of found myself immediately agreeing with "crash=toast to a high likelihood",
So I really can't make it any worse, can I? ;-)
>>> "inspect where the impact actually is evident, for any distortion of the metal or any bending of the small (upshift) lever."
The upshift works without problem (no resistance)
>>> "I might first start by removing the front faceplate and spring hardware since that was likely most-affected by the crash, "
Check! That's what I have in mind mostly.
I'm hoping once I open that part up, I'll either find something broken or bend beyond repair, in which case the shifter is toasted. Or I found the source of the resistance that are easily fixable.
I doubt I would need to go beyond that, since the upshift lever works fine.
quote:
but even without knowing April's work history she seems to me like a persistent type who well might get the whole works back together, actually working.
My working habit can probably be illustrated here:
http://cyclingforum.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10399&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=cable&start=0
Also, this being the end of riding season so I got plenty of time to exercise my persistence. ;-)
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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5101
Location: Nashua, NH10/17/13 5:29 AM |
E-ring pliers are nothing special
They're also known as "snap-ring" pliers. You can find them at any decent hardware or tool store. Harbor freight has them dirt cheap:
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=snap+ring
I've also found that in many cases, you can remove and reinstall e-rings/snap-rings without the pliers, though I don't know whether that's the case for Shimano shifters.
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC10/17/13 7:14 AM |
Thanks, Brian. I know the forum members knows the answer to everything bike mechanical! ;-)
And the tool looks to be just pliers with very thin nose...
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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield10/17/13 8:02 AM |
Harbor Freight quality question
The fact that it's recommended partially answers this question, but what do you guys think of the Harbor Freight quality?
I live near a HF retail store. I even get a coupon in the Val-Pak envelope every month. I could have so many flashlights by now....
I've avoided them because I don't know how good their tools are.
Plus, the place just looks plain dangerous to my bank account if my prejudice is unfounded.
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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5101
Location: Nashua, NH10/18/13 5:39 AM |
It's probably better than you think
While I'm leery of their power tools and edged tools, their hand tools and small parts seem pretty good, at least what I would term "serviceable". I have the interchangeable snap-ring pliers and while they're not Snap-On quality, they work just fine.
The only concern I have for April is that her shifters may have tiny snap-rings that are too small for that particular tool. The larger set looks like it has some tiny pliers in it that may work better.
Another alternative is to pick up some "dollar store" needle-nose pliers and file them to fit the snap-rings in question. Picks and hooks can often be used in place of pliers, particularly in the case of external snap rings that don't have holes in them for pliers. Sometimes a pair of needle nose pliers can be used to push that type of snap ring off of a shaft/pin.
One last general snap-ring caveat is that since they are springs of a sort, they have a tendency to go flying if you don't keep a good grip on them. Wear eye protection and work on a hard surface where they won't get lost easily. Worst-case, I think Harbor Freight sells an inexpensive snap-ring assortment
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC10/18/13 7:19 AM |
quote:
One last general snap-ring caveat is that since they are springs of a sort, they have a tendency to go flying if you don't keep a good grip on them. Wear eye protection and work on a hard surface where they won't get lost easily. Worst-case, I think Harbor Freight sells an inexpensive snap-ring assortment
Thanks for that. Yes, I read something similar in other people's account of their own experience in servicing Ultegra shifters. I think I'm going to work in the kitchen (spotlessly clean) instead of the garage.
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19092
Location: PDX10/18/13 10:41 AM |
Wear eye protection.
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC10/18/13 12:36 PM |
I wear glasses
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19092
Location: PDX10/18/13 2:36 PM |
Them cir-clips can fly! I always think of a friend whom after 40 years in his body shop had a small pliers popped projectile take out an eye.
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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5101
Location: Nashua, NH10/19/13 7:40 PM |
"I think I'm going to work in the kitchen..."
Make sure you put a stopper in the sink drain! ;-)
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC10/19/13 8:11 PM |
LOL!
I went out for hike/ride instead of working on the bike...
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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT10/20/13 6:19 AM |
Here's a thought.
When you're removing small, spring-loaded parts, pull a plastic bag or pillow case over the bars (the bag is easier to see through, the case easier to find things in) to catch the part.
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