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Saddle choice and position on saddle for longer rides
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sanrensho
Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 835
Location: North Vancouver

7/8/13 3:12 PM

Saddle choice and position on saddle for longer rides

I would appreciate some advice from the forum members .

This year, I've been making the transition to longer rides (2 to 3+ hrs), from my usual diet of near daily 1-2 hour rides necessitated by children and family/work schedules.

Until now, my perfect saddle has been the Selle Italia SLR, and it remains my gold standard for rides under two hours including on the trainer. However, I'm finding discomfort (pain, not numbness) as my rides border on three hours, despite getting out of the saddle frequently or for minutes at a time and even taking breaks.

At that point, I notice that I'm generally in the middle of the saddle, definitely not pushed into the wings of the SLR with my sitbones. Sitting "back" this way does give some relief, but I soon find myself drifting toward the middle of the saddle where my thighs do not noticeably touch the wings of the saddle during pedaling. (Sitting "back" on the SLR rests the back of my thighs on the saddle wings during the downstroke. I generally do not ride this far back on the saddle)

I'm wondering if I need to revisit my position on the saddle (sit further back/move saddle forward), in addition to/instead of going on the saddle hunt again. Other aspects of my fit/position have been static and worked well for me for the last few years.

For reference, I've tried an SLR XP (slightly more padded) and liked it less than my gold standard SLR. Also ridden various Flite, Fizik Gobi (pretty good) and many mtb saddles (hate the extra padding on saddles such as the WTB Speed series).

Thanks. (Apologies in advance if I do not reply to everyone. I am definitely reading everything.)

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1724
Location: SE Pa, USA

7/8/13 3:37 PM

Well, I may not be the right datapoint, because I'm not particularly saddle sensitive, but...

For years, I rode nothing but the "old" (now) SLR-the superflat, unpadded one. Still like it. A friend gave me an Arione (Fizik) and what it revealed to me was the multiplicity of sweet spots available, whereas the SLR had maybe 2 positions. Its heavier than the SLR (at least if affordability is a concern) but it stays on my everyday bike simply because I fancy the ability to move fore and aft at will.

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

7/8/13 4:55 PM

I have been working through the same issue. 250 miles in the last 5 days.

I find that saddle tilt makes a huge difference. Even a tiny bit to nose down and your soft tissue "gives" and you move forward on the saddle. Try tipping the saddle a micro hair of a degree up at the nose. I don't mean point it up, I mean a tiny amount at a time.

I am using a Fizik aerone (sp?).

I had a pair of shorts chaff my legs at the edge of the chamois a couple of days ago when I got caught in the rain. Ouch!!!

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3234
Location: Midland, MI

7/8/13 6:34 PM

Moving forward

I would say that if you constantly find yourself too far forward on the saddle then the obvious thing to try is moving the saddle forward. An interesting thing for me with the SLR is that it would cause some shorts (Pearl Izumi) to cause me problems on longer rides because the saddle somehow coincided with the edge of the pad and I would get a "seam chafe" right at that point. An SLX didn't do this nor did a Selle San Marco. Other than that I liked the SLR and it was OK with some of my "long distance shorts". Rode it probably 60,000 miles.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/8/13 8:03 PM

Maybe we should be talking about shorts in the context as well.

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sanrensho
Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 835
Location: North Vancouver

7/8/13 10:45 PM

Shorts do not seem to be a factor. I have everything from thick molded chamois (Hincapie) to thin molded (Castelli) and "traditional" non-molded ranging from thick to thin. Results are the same.

As far as being too far forward, I'm not sliding forward over time, but my "sweet spot" puts me in the middle of the saddle where my thighs don't contact the saddle wings on the downstroke. Should I reconsider my riding position itself from the standpoint of being further back (having the sitbones firmly planted in the wider part of the saddle, so that thighs brush/contact the saddle wings)?

Seat height is staying put as any higher has my hips rocking, lower results in knee pain. Although I will adjust it to account for sliding the saddle forward if I do that (requiring me to change my preferred sweet spot on the saddle).

Erik, I have my SLR pointed a few degrees up, but will look at the saddle tilt again. Right now, the Arione with relief channel is looking good based on my desire for a similar flat saddle and positive experience with the Gobi. On the Arione though, the long/pointed tail seems pointless to me coming from SLR/Flite saddles.

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

7/9/13 4:18 AM

The pointed tail is useless and a marketing trademark.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

7/9/13 11:03 AM

Brooks?

Two 6-day, 500+ mile rides, two experiences.

In 2002, I rode across Wisconsin. I used a Flite, and much bag balm. Very sore.

In 2005 (IIRC), same distance (different route). I used a Brooks Swift, no bag balm. Not sore at all.

Now, it may be that I "toughened up" over the intervening years, or perhaps not. In any event, I've found Brooks and Brooks-like saddles to be my saddles of choice for long rides.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/9/13 11:11 AM

"The pointed tail is useless and a marketing trademark."


Weight distribution benefit, therefore lower weight due to less material?

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sanrensho
Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 835
Location: North Vancouver

7/9/13 12:53 PM

Bag Balm is for chafing, no? What I am experiencing is pain/soreness from pressure points (no chafing/rubbing).

So where does everyone sit in the saddle? Sitbones firmly planted in the saddle wings?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/9/13 4:13 PM

I like a stiff less padded saddle that weight shifts can move the pressure points to different places. So a shift allows the previous place to recover pretty much...

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

7/9/13 4:57 PM

Brooks again

I think it goes beyond chafing; referencing Sparky's comment, the lack of padding lets you move the pressure points around. I'm no century-every-weekend rider, but I've done two metrics and one English in the last month and a half or so, and I like the support I get from my Brooksish (Velo Orange) saddle. In particular, even with a replacement hip I can find a comfortable spot (or two).

I'm not saying it's a solution to everyone's problem, but it might be worth trying one. If Wallingford still has their excellent trial plan available, it might be worth trying out a Pro or a Swift for a while. Might look weird, but we're cyclists. We're used to that.

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

7/9/13 5:18 PM

Damn things are gawd awful heavy and ugly. There has be a better choice for him.

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sanrensho
Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 835
Location: North Vancouver

7/9/13 5:35 PM

The bike is a weight weenie Scott CR1. I do appreciate the Brooks suggestion but it would be a last resort.

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Evan Marks
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1652
Location: NYC

7/9/13 5:58 PM

1. How long have you been riding on the same saddle?

2. Why don't you try a new one of the same make and model?

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

7/9/13 6:38 PM

5 oz. (150g)

The difference between a Selle Italia Flite (with Ti rails) and a Brooks Swallow (with ti rails).

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3234
Location: Midland, MI

7/9/13 6:42 PM

Perched


quote:
So where does everyone sit in the saddle? Sitbones firmly planted in the saddle wings?


That's where I sit. I always tell people that their weight should be on their sit bones - perched on the wide part of the saddle.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/9/13 6:49 PM

The yellow Stella SS I tossed together a few weeks back got a Flite that had just landed on a trade bike I parted out.

Not used one since the 90s, forgot how much I liked them. Although I had an Alps for a while which was too narrow for me...

Old staple ? I had got a few CyclePro Ti saddles which I still have that caused me to sell of the Alpes and the regular last Flites back then...

Not sure I agree on the sit bones, that is one of the places I like to have as a possibility on any saddle. But
the nose and middle get used as well. In my rotating pressure point sitting style, if you will.

TT use IMO disproves the sit bones theory, for me anyway....

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/9/13 8:39 PM


quote:
Bag Balm is for chafing, no? What I am experiencing is pain/soreness from pressure points (no chafing/rubbing).

Your issue and mine seems to be mirror images! Soreness of sitbones is my problem.


quote:

So where does everyone sit in the saddle? Sitbones firmly planted in the saddle wings?


I actually sit in the middle. I found sitting on the wing cause soreness at the sitbones, especially when on rough roads.

So I move around. When the road is smooth, I sit on the wing for a while. If it's rough, I slide back to the middle. The middle is currently my optimal position. On the wing (which is furher back), I'm a bit too far back so my lower back gets a bit tired after a while.

But you're already ahead of the game than mine. I still have some chaffing to deal with. Tilting the saddle down a VERY SMALL amount solves that problem, but seems to put a lot more pressure on my wrist. Tilting it back to level brought back the chaffing. :-(

And, I'm now just gottong on to the SLR family with cut outs. Though I found the same "family" of saddles aren't all that similar. Different models still comes in very different shapes. So no guarantee a particular model will work. Still, they seems to work well enough for me. Like you, I like the saddle with a large flat area so I could move back and forth on it.

I actually like a bit of padding. I have thin and thick shorts. The thick one helps reducing the soreness better. So I think some padding is helpful.

On smooth roads, I'm able to ride comfortably for up to 4, maybe even 5 hrs. Non-stop rough roads cut that down to 3. Under 2 hrs, I have only a tiny bit of soreness. Or, if I tilt the saddle up a degree or two, trading soreness with some small amount of chaffing...

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

7/10/13 5:02 AM

Kontact (formerly E3) saddle

These have been my go-to saddle for several years now. The long, narrow nose eliminates chaffing and is being copied by some Euro brands now. The squarish rear section allows me to slide back and forth over a range of 1 1/2" or so while still having full support and no issues with chaffing or friction. Although it obviously varies from person to person, I've always found that chaffing and soreness issues are caused by the wide center sections on most saddles and the Kontact/E3 design eliminates that.

E3 saddles show up on Ebay periodically and I've seen new, Ti-framed saddles selling for $50 or less. I haven't tried the heavier, steel-framed gel model, but if I find a deal on one, I may give it a shot on the 'cross bike.

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sanrensho
Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 835
Location: North Vancouver

7/10/13 2:47 PM

Thanks for the ideas everyone.

The thought that my current saddle is worn did cross my mind. Will try switching it out with another SLR from my stash. I also have a Spec. Toupe on the way to try out. Apparently the shape/width is very similar. Will also see if I can hunt down an Aliante and Arione to try.

Road surface is definitely a factor but I generally avoid the bad stuff anyway and only run 90 psi. Brian, interesting comment about the narrow nose on the E3, my sore pressure points are definitely on the sides of the mid-nose area of the saddle, so this is pertinent to me. What Euro saddles have you found with a similar narrow nose?

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

7/11/13 5:30 AM

Selle Italia SLR Monolink

This is the first one I noticed, but it requires a special seatpost, too. I've seen one other that works with a standard post, but I can't recall who makes it. If it comes to me, I'll post it.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

7/11/13 5:56 AM

experiment

I have been spared saddle issues so I probably don't have too much insight into this, but in terms of position I sit on the back of the saddle as Kerry describes (that's why it's wider back there, right?) I abrade my shorts/tights on the inside on one thigh, so I guess it rubs, but it's not anything I think about. I don't notice any pressure points.

So riding into work this morning as an experiment I slid forward slightly on the saddle. I stayed there about .1 second. There's a pressure point all right, the nose of the saddle right where I don't need it....

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/11/13 9:39 AM

So does anyone TT at all. I used to back in Jersey and I have procured a Blade for when I get my fitness where I deem needed then I will give it another go.

For me it is all about sitting on the nose. Contador TT multiple slides continually in the 2011 TDF TT come to mind. I remember thinking he was wasting a lot of energy moving back every 15-20 seconds, but he came in with a low time.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

7/11/13 9:52 AM

TT

I used to tt alot, I did a Merckx 2 man last year (and would do one this year but Hardy got hurt!)

I'm no model of anything, but I always sat way back whether on the aerobars or drops. Nothing to do with aero, just where I felt comfortable. I always felt comfortable on the aerobars. I know people slide forward for various reasons.

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