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SRAM shifting?
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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6019
Location: Maine

6/11/13 3:32 AM

SRAM shifting?

Anyone use this? How do you like it? Particularly compared to Campy, if you have used both. TIA.

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1632
Location: SE Pa, USA

6/11/13 6:13 AM

More like Shimano than Campy. It is heretical to put it on a Sachs, however.
I know how stupid expensive Campy has become, but still, baby Jesus will cry.

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2500
Location: hillbilly heaven

6/11/13 6:34 AM

Dan note that SRAM does not make any triple compatible shifters, so that cannot be an option in the future. Most of the people I know grow weary of it. I agree with Greg, and think that Campy is the way. I'm going to rebuild my Calfee with a mix of Campy and Shimano. Shimano makes good stuff of course, but I don't like the feel of their shifters you might like them.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6019
Location: Maine

6/11/13 6:43 AM

Thanks

Well Campy is my default option (I've had Campy on every road bike I've had since 1975, plus I'm old and set in my ways), just curious.

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2500
Location: hillbilly heaven

6/11/13 7:19 AM

The weird thing about new Campy is that the high end double shifters are still triple compatible but the lower end (Athena and down) are now double and triple specific, and are not very good at trimming the front derailleur. You will need to talk to a Campy expert to wade through this jungle. It also varies from year to year at each level of Camy. The triple spefific groups are Centaur and Athena, but I was told that Chorus and up double shifters makes for a more "flexible" triple setup. Madness.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6019
Location: Maine

6/11/13 7:52 AM

no triple on this

I prefer a compact double for nearly all riding and I have one bike set up with extreme gearing when needed.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

6/11/13 7:55 AM

Yay for doubles!

Excellent decision to keep it in the double category.

The next question will be new or old lever shape (though I suppose the number of gears you want is a factor). I haven't tried the newest shape, but it just doesn't look right to me; I prefer the basic 9s lever. But tastes vary.

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1632
Location: SE Pa, USA

6/11/13 8:08 AM

I don't dislike the way Shimano or Sram shifts, but it is different and less "mechanical" feeling than Campy. I actually really like D/A 7800, despite the exposed cables, 7900 and on isn't as light action. That said, my steel bikes are all Campy, if only because I just think its more in character with the bike.

I agree that Campy has become almost indecipherable with the number of features split among the groups, and the dollar to euro has made it less attractive.

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

6/11/13 8:40 AM


quote:
It is heretical to put it on a Sachs.....

Well, didn't SRAM buy Sachs? (Yeah, I know, different Sachs but I couldn't pass up the opportunity.)


quote:
I agree that Campy has become almost indecipherable with the number of features split among the groups, and the dollar to euro has made it less attractive.

I can't help with the complexity issue but you can reduce the cost penalty by buying through one of the UK or European on-line sellers. I've had excellent services from Wiggle and my son-in-lay has also used Chain Reaction and ProBikeKit with good results.

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Craig
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 548

6/11/13 9:30 AM

I hated my brief experience with SRAM road components. (insert adage about assholes and opinions here)

Heretical? I doubt Baby Jesus would cry when God himself rides SRAM...

http://www.richardsachs.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ATMO_by_SRAM_2-06.jpg

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16692
Location: Portland, OR

6/11/13 9:56 AM

I did not care for the feel. The Shimano to me has such a soft cable pull, buttery. The SRAM to me was very stiff feeling, and I try new and well used. Campy to me also more mechanical, but I sure wish the Shimano could do the multi up and down like Campy does. Although less important to me anymore as I am not play sprinting with 25-35 year olds anymore...

I do not recall the body shape/width on the SRAMs, but the 10s SH across the board are longer and bulkier. This in something a rider with huge mitts can appreciate. My old 9 speed D/A I used for a decade where small, to save on weight presumably.

Additional plus for me is that 99% of the shifters work with 99% of the Derailleurs, and damn well at that.

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8310
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

6/11/13 3:31 PM

After two years using it. It is mediocre at best.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6019
Location: Maine

6/11/13 4:28 PM

@ Erik

Which SRAM group do you have? What don't you like? Thanks.

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8310
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

6/11/13 5:10 PM

Rival. Wonky shifting. Won't dial just right across the cogs. Also SRAM chains don't last very well either.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

6/11/13 8:17 PM

chains

I've had good luck w/SRAM chains (9s). In fact, it will be some time before my bike needs another Sachs change operation.

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Craig
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 548

6/11/13 9:12 PM

"I've had good luck w/SRAM chains (9s). In fact, it will be some time before my bike needs another Sachs change operation."

Again, opinions and assholes, but every SRAM (and even Sachs) chain I've used has been noisy and shifted poorly. Mostly when trying to integrate it with Campy stuff but introducing it to Shimano MTB stuff over the years has made me less than happy too.

I've generally found that if you want your Campy stuff to shift well, use Campy stuff. Same for Shimano. I've never owned a SRAM cassette and chain combo, maybe it's the stuff of dreams. I have tried SRAM, Sachs, and Wippermans's stupid expensive stainless chain on Shimano and Campagnolo (the bazillion dollar Wipperman stainless chain on a brand new Shimano cassette skipped from day one, sooooo disappointing, sooooo happy the rep gave me the chain for free because even at wholesale it would have been a lot to pay for a chain that sucked ass from day one....)

Disclaimer: yes, they work. You can put any crap aftermarket chain on any name brand cassette and you'll most likely hit every gear most of the time. But I'm picky. I'd rather pay the extra $10-$40 for a chain that runs silent and shifts perfectly while wearing exceptionally well. Shimano chains on Shimano cassettes, yes. Campy chains on Campy cassettes, yes. SRAM chains on Campy or Shimano cassettes, not as good. SRAM chains on SRAM cassettes? Don't know. Might be magical, though I'm skeptical...

(edit: just realized what I wrote might be construed as calling you an "asshole." Not intended. Mostly referring to myself as that "asshole" that has to be contrary for the sake of being contrary. I'll admit to coming across as an asshole. But I genuinely believe SRAM chains aren't as good as Shimano chains on Shimano cassettes. Tried it more than once. Doesn't mean they don't work, just that they don't work as well, and I'd rather pay the extra for something that works better. That's just this asshole. All you other assholes probably have your own opinions...)

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6420
Location: Westchester/NYC

6/11/13 9:28 PM

Different standard


quote:
You can put any crap aftermarket chain on any name brand cassette and you'll most likely hit every gear most of the time .

I think for many, that's the definition of "working well". But for others "more picky", that's just "working", not well.

I have one bike running Campy, one running Shimano. Before, they were each running chains of their own brand. But now, both of them having SRAM chains! I found the chain makes no difference for me. If I have shifting problem, it's ALWAYS in the shifter or derailleur adjustment, or a dirty chain. Otherwise, I almost always hit the gear I want to hit.

Granted, I'm not running top of line groupos so I really don't know how much more "perfectly" the shifting can be over what I've got. And consider one group (Campy) is 15 year old and the other (Shimano) is 8 years old, I'm quite surprised how functional they still are.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

6/12/13 4:12 AM

Chains

1. No offense taken :-p

2. Been using Sachs chains, usually cheap ones, for the past 15+ years (with an occasional Shimano or other) and never had any trouble. I started using SRAM cassettes, straight or modified, about seven years back, no trouble. OTOH, most of my gear is friction, not index. I think I have broken one chain, Shimano IIRC, in that time.

3. I've had good luck with shifting and quiet, especially in the past 1,000 miles with Chain-L No. 5 lube.

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8310
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

6/12/13 4:30 AM

Uh, friction shifting? Dude, rolling that way means your experience is for naught. Good shifting there is a product of your brain and hand.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

6/12/13 4:49 AM

Um?

But in general wear is not. I thought when you said


quote:
SRAM chains don't last very well either.


you were referring to wear in general. If you're talking about wear w/r/t shifting performance, that's a slightly different kettle of fish. I suppose that the chain might get looser (or tighter) side to side over time, but I still don't see how routine wear, which I find to be low with SRAM/Sachs chains, could affect shifting all that much.

As for good friction shifting, it's gotta be the hand. I've raised four kids and there ain't no brains left.

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

6/12/13 7:19 AM

YMMV


quote:
have tried SRAM, Sachs, and Wippermans's stupid expensive stainless chain on Shimano and Campagnolo (the bazillion dollar Wipperman stainless chain on a brand new Shimano cassette skipped from day one, sooooo disappointing, sooooo happy the rep gave me the chain for free because even at wholesale it would have been a lot to pay for a chain that sucked ass from day one....)


I've never splurged on the Wippermann stainless chain but have used their more plebian 10-speed chains on a Campy Chorus 10-speed triple drivetrain for well over 20,000 miles and they have all run quietly, shift extremely well and have been durable. I like them.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4162
Location: Nashua, NH

6/13/13 5:33 AM

SRAM and chains

I agree about Rival shifting performance being somewhat sub-par, but that my have changed and it's not true of he higher groups. Linda has Red on one of her 'cross bikes and it shifts great. However, there is one significant flaw in the "Double-Tap" system that SRAM still hasn't addressed. When you've downshifted the rear and reach the largest cog, if you mistakenly try to downshift again, it will upshift one gear, which can create a major problem if you're struggling up a hill. There must be a way to fix this, but SRAM hasn't done so.

IMO, if one is used to Campy, other mechanical shifting systems will be a disappointment. It's not that they don't work well, they just don't offer the same features. In particular, the ability to shift multiple cogs in both directions is something I use on every ride when shifting between chainrings. Whether shifting to higher or lower gears, I can change chainrings and shift multiple cogs in the rear, and end up in the next lower or higher gear. Whether you race or not (I don't), it's a really nice feature.

As for chains, I've used Campy, Wipperman and SRAM, but have settled on KMC. They work great, last a long time and they're available a better prices than the others. Frankly, I haven't noticed any significant differences in shifting performance among any of these.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6019
Location: Maine

6/13/13 5:41 AM

Thanks Brian

That's helpful. I tend to like any reason to stay with Campy :)

Another issue is that I currently use 3 distinct shifting systems - Ergo; Rohloff; and barend rear/ hand cranked front on my rando bike. I can more or less keep them straight, but adding a 4th to the mix might be pushing it...

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

6/13/13 6:30 AM

Not All


quote:
In particular, the ability to shift multiple cogs in both directions is something I use on every ride....

I believe multiple upshifts with current Campy groups are limited to Chorus and above. I'm not sure about Athena but Centaur and below only allow one upshift at a time just like Shimano.

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8310
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

6/13/13 6:46 AM

I just bang the lever a couple of times when I upshift a number of cogs. That has never been an issue for me even in my racing days.

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