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weldwood as tire glue?
 

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Anthony Smith
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 848
Location: Ohio

5/28/13 9:38 AM

weldwood as tire glue?

Has anyone here had any experiance with glueing on tires with Weld Wood? I usually use Mastik one or FastTack. I worked on a bike for someone else (help with tires) and taking the old one off was really hard (well stuck) and he told me it had been glued on with WeldWood. I've been around since the early 70s and never heard of using that...so any input?

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

5/28/13 10:02 AM

Yikes

I've been around since the early '70s too, and that's a new one on me. Used various red, amber and white goop, no Weldwood.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

5/28/13 10:55 AM

Too strong! Got o NAPA and get 3M Fast Tack Trim # 08031 if you are not going to use specific Tubular glue.

Funny you should mention it, I am doing tubulars on both the Paramount and the Scott this week. ;)

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3234
Location: Midland, MI

5/28/13 6:34 PM

Too good

The argument against many of the "tubular glue alternatives" is that they are too good. The tire is stuck on so well that you have to destroy it to remove it. This certainly is a complaint about Fast Tack and it really is an issue on a hot day with no shade and you're at the side of the road with a flat.

I sure am glad I switched to clinchers 15 years ago :)

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

5/29/13 5:28 AM

No such thing as "too good"

If you find that it's easier to remove a tire that's glued with tubular cement than with Fast Tack, it means your gluing job sucks. In fact, there are tests conducted at the University of Kansas that indicate that the better tire-specific glues are considerably stronger than Fast-Tack, which is why they are recommended. http://cnl.salk.edu/~jorge/xfer/TubularTiresAdhesivesandPracticePart1-4.pdf

Note: There are several more parts (5-9) to this study.

I used Fast-Tack for ~30 years with no issues, but switched to Mastik One a few years ago. The main advantages of Fast-Tack are that it's relatively inexpensive and readily available at most auto-parts stores. It also dries quicker, so you can get on the road faster in a pinch, though the above-mentioned tests also indicate that it takes ~24 hours to reach full strength. Mastik One does seem to be stronger and removing a tire glued with it is a bear. When riding on tubulars, I always have a small screwdriver in my tool kit that I can use to pry the base tape loose, then roll the screw driver along the rim to separate the tire from it. It's laborious and slow, but it works.

BTW, if you use Stan's sealant in your tubies, it eliminates most flats, so you'll only have to go through the removal process at home when you're changing tires.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

5/29/13 5:55 AM

disagree in part

I never used Fast Tack, but I agree with Kerry that difficulty getting tires off the rim can be a drawback with sewups. I used them for about 20 years (still have some wheels), and toward the end with Conti glue I was having a hell of a time getting the tire off the rim. Maybe you don't think that's a problem on the side of the road, but I do (I never used Stan's either). Plus after you swap a sewup you need to ride conservatively until you can reglue it. And on a really long ride how many spares do you want to take? I think sewups are good for situations where a guy in a car hands you a new wheel (or bike). And I really don't notice the magic ride.

Last edited by dan emery on 5/29/13 7:52 AM; edited 2 times in total

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Anthony Smith
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 848
Location: Ohio

5/29/13 7:46 AM

middle ground

I train on clinchers and race on tubs--road, track, cross, mtb... Even though clinchers have a come a long way they can't match rim weight/strenght and cornering ability of tubs as the clincher rim has to hold some of the pressure requiring a higher strong sidewall which inherently makes the rim heavier and the side of the tire less able to conform to the road (surface).

Finally, tubs are safer when they flat so long as hey are well glued as they stay on the rim--better chance of staying up on the road or track. Years ago, I rode a flat front the last 15 miles or so of the Tour de Moore (1/2 race) and sprinted to a to 20 placing in the rain on it. Couldn't do that on a clincher. Nevertheless--in an unsupported circumstance like just riding or training, clinchers are more convienent as a tube change is easy.

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1724
Location: SE Pa, USA

5/29/13 8:00 AM

Just to add a worthless two cents, never heard of Weldwood in this application.

I'm another sealant user - Stans, or my hombrew-and while it does add weight I'm a big fan-have had unnoticed cuts only discovered after removing the tire for other purposes, and no on road flats for a year. Use it in all but my lightweight weight weenie tubie wheelset.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

5/29/13 9:54 AM

"Stans, or my hombrew"


Like to hear more about that, the homebrew...

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1724
Location: SE Pa, USA

5/29/13 2:55 PM

Bootlegin'

Next time you have half a day to waste, read the thread on homebrew tire sealant on MTBR. A chemist chimed in deep in, and they got very specific and esoteric. On a basic level, what they end up formulating is glycol, some sort of fiberous binder, latex, and another goodie or two.

I hacked this somewhat, as I didn't want to source all the stuff-I ended up using a 16oz bottle of tire sealant from my farm supply (some closeout stuff that was half price-bought a couple) and RV antifreeze, which is a good cheap source of glycol-see the thread. Mix about 2 qts of the antifreeze with the tire sealant in an old milk jug and shake like hell for a good while, and before each use. Dispense with the stan's rig.

Have used it to run tubeless mtb - non tubeless tires on a tubeless Bontrager rim-and it works great-as well as the Stans in the other tire on the wheelset. Haven't had it in there long enough to find out if it boogers like Stan's over time. Works well in tubes too.

I like Stan's-don't get me wrong, its the $16/qt that gets me. I think I ended up with 3 quarts for a little less than that.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

5/29/13 3:00 PM

I got a small inventory of the Glycol based Specialized @ cost before I left the LBS last year. I intend to use it with the tubular setups. I have 3 sets of wheels and lots of tires... Seem like the Paramount just must have a set to me. ;)


Have you had the chance to get an opinion as to the effectiveness of your DIY Sealant?? Like seen it coming out and the tire stop leaking, you got me pretty curious now. ;)


Last edited by Sparky on 5/29/13 5:32 PM; edited 1 time in total

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1724
Location: SE Pa, USA

5/29/13 5:23 PM

Yes-mounted a Conti explorer on the mtb, leaked like hell, spun it with the sealant, all good as a tubeless mtb setup.

Vittoria evo on the road bike, no idea it had a leak til I pulled the tire/tube and found the tire stuck to the tube in several places.

YMMV

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

5/31/13 8:39 PM

Do you guys also put the sealant in your tubular spare? Or are you confident enough to not carry one with the sealant ?

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cranky
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 146

5/31/13 8:42 PM

Sorry about the drift, fellas. Was wondering what you think about this idea from Dave Moulton (http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/blog/2007/8/1/tubulars-part-iii-gluing-the-tire-to-the-rim.html)


quote:
When I apply glue to the rim, I deliberately miss a spot. The space between two spokes that is opposite the valve; that is the place where the manufacturer’s label usually is. (I am not talking about the new wheels with a large space between spokes. About 2 ¼ inches [56 mm.] is good.)

The reason I do this is, if a tire is stuck on correctly, it is hard to remove, even when deflated. This little dry spot with no glue gives me a place to start. The tire will not roll off because 2 ¼ inches of glue is missing. I choose the space opposite the valve so I remember where it is.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

5/31/13 8:46 PM

That seems like a good idea. Wish I read that before I finished up the set for the Paramount. ;)

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

6/1/13 6:49 AM

I wouldn't do it

Giving a tire a place to start rolling off the rim is asking for trouble. Compared to the time it takes to get the rest of the tire off, starting one that is fully glued is no big deal. Buy hey, it's your a$$, not mine.

As for putting sealant in a spare tubie, I haven't done it because it gets used so rarely that the sealant would just dry out, possibly sticking the tube together inside the tire. FWIW, since I started using sealant, I haven't had a single flat in a road tubie or clincher. I think it's been about 4 years now.

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