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Up State New York
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rickhardy
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1492
Location: Needham outside of Boston - the hub of the universe

5/27/13 11:00 AM

Up State New York

Hey Dan and anyone else, missing being upstate? whew....

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

5/27/13 11:04 AM

Boy, that is beautiful...

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

5/27/13 11:43 AM

No thank!

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Doug
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 204
Location: In the shadow of the Valley of Death

5/27/13 12:31 PM

Upstate

"Upstate NY" is a bit too broad of a descriptor. I had spoken to my brother who's been living at the olde family homestead just north of Utica, and he reported lots of rain. Apparently you had to live at altitude to experience that wondrous situation, aka Whiteface.
YMMV
-dg

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

5/27/13 3:16 PM

Isn't Utica considered "western NY"? Or was reserved only for area west of Syracus?

Though Doug is right, "upstate NY" is a relatively broad description, usually includes Albany, which I'm pretty sure only got rain instead.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

5/27/13 3:47 PM

upstate NY

Yeah upstate NY is basically anywhere N of NYC. I've spent time in Buffalo, Ithaca, Syracuse, Albany, all upstate NY. Whiteface is in the Adirondacks, obviously, way upstate. Though I believe the area that receives the most snow in the country is the Tug Hill Plateau, just west of the Adirondacks. For reasonably sized cities, I believe Syracuse receives the most.

I rode our club's Memorial Day ride today (W. Me and NH), fortunately no snow on Hurricane Mtn Rd., Rt 16 thru Pinkham Notch, or Rt 113 thru Evans Notch. Could see lots of snow on the White Mtns though.


Last edited by dan emery on 5/27/13 3:54 PM; edited 1 time in total

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

5/27/13 3:49 PM

No no no

Utica is upstate, but certainly not not Western NY. Buffalo and environs is WNY, I'm not even sure about Rochester.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

5/27/13 4:37 PM

"Yeah upstate NY is basically anywhere N of NYC"

Beat me to it. To me even Champlain does not qualify. ;)


Last edited by Sparky on 5/27/13 6:12 PM; edited 1 time in total

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Steve B.
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 769
Location: Long Island, NY

5/27/13 5:53 PM

To anyone from NYC and Long Island, "Upstate" starts at the Bronx/Westchester County border, so includes Yonkers and Mt. Vernon (the city/town immediately north of the border.

This is a known fact to anyone who moved to Long Island (as I did) and was told "but there's a sign on the NY Thruway in the Bronx that say's "Upstate". Oh, OK, so anything north of 'Da Bronx" is upstate. Got it.

Rochester is in western NY State, mostly and unless you're from Rochester. Syracuse, Utica, Binghamton are merely upstate.

Are we clear now ? (Grin)

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

5/27/13 6:15 PM

"OK, so anything north of 'Da Bronx" is upstate."

Maybe it starts when you got over the North Harlem River right where it hits the Hudson River north of the GW Bridge. NOT! ;)

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3234
Location: Midland, MI

5/27/13 6:28 PM

36 inches

I heard Whiteface got 36 inches of "powdery snow." I'm sure that varied quite a bit from bottom to top, but that sure is a bunch for Memorial Day weekend.

And coming from Michigan, I learned long ago that "out west" referred to anything past the Hudson River. And to think I thought it meant places like Montana, Wyoming, and Colorado!

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

5/27/13 6:35 PM

Not so sure

I grew up just outside of Buffalo and the common usage there of WNY did not include Rochester. Or example the All-WNY HS sports teams did not include Rochester athletes.

OTOH the federal judicial district Western District of New York includes Rochester. So Rochester may be western under the letter of the law, but not the spirit.

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JohnC
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1939
Location: Glastonbury, Ct

5/27/13 7:52 PM

There are no rules about terminology like that -- only local custom. And you don't want to go by Federal judicial districts. The Central District of California is in Los Angeles, to take one example.

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2625
Location: Canberra, Australia

5/28/13 1:00 AM

Suggest to the Giro organisers that they organise a stage or two there...

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Wheels
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1160
Location: Needham, MA

5/28/13 7:15 AM

Fomer Upstater NY here

To be fully accurate,there are several distinct areas of New York state, at least according to NYC folks.

They are:

    NYC
    Long Island
    West Chester County
    Adirondacks (Sometimes)
    Upstate NY
    Buffalo -aka Western NY


Some folks don't distinguish between Upstate and the dak's. Western NY by most NYC folks definition is Greater Buffalo/Niagara region. Rochester is not included.

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Doug
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 204
Location: In the shadow of the Valley of Death

5/28/13 12:41 PM

Upstate Redux

For those who were born and raised there, Utica was considered Central NY, along with Rome, at the mouth of the Mohawk Valley. [Refer to Leatherstocking Tales] Rochester and Syracuse were the Finger lakes region, Buffalo and the Niagara frontier were Western NY. South of the "Erie Canal" and east of I-81, there was the Catskills, and the "City". North of the Eire Canal was the Adirondacks. And Albany was the Capital district.

The observation on the TugHill Plateau vs Whiteface is spot on. I lived just north of Syracuse for 15 years. Syracuse would get rain/sleet, and we would be hip deep in snow. FWIW, Syracuse has had the "honor" of winning the Golden Snowball [an actual award!] for many years; one of the principle reasons I live in NV, and previously in the Bay Area - NorCal.
YMMV
-dg

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

5/28/13 2:18 PM

Upstate

When I was in college in Minnesota, I went out with a girl who had grown up in "Upstate NY." I'm pretty sure that the qualifier was simply to indicate that she wasn't from New York City, which is what most of us hicks (this was 1977 or so) thought was meant by "NEW YORK."

When I lived in Schenectady, we used it pretty much the same way. That is, to other New York residents, we were in the "Capital District" or Capital Region. To out of state folks, we lived in Upstate.

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Matthew Currie
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 800
Location: Vermont

5/29/13 7:20 AM

When I lived in New York State, Schenectady and the like were "Upstate," which was a shorthand for anything that is not New York City but is still way south of the North Country.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

5/29/13 7:48 AM

Quibbling

A generally erudite discussion by Doug, but I would place the Finger Lakes Region as a bit south of Rochester and Syracuse (having spent 3 years High Above Cayuga's Waters).

I'm returning this summer for a HS reunion in the heart of WNY so I can discuss these issues with many great minds. Or not.

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Paul Datars
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 1229
Location: Manotick, Ontario, Canada

5/29/13 8:07 AM

So Dan, does the "or not" part refer to a potential discussion or the potential of great minds being available for such a discussion :-)

I spent the first two weeks of my recent retirement in "upstate NY" riding my brains out in the Catskills, 52 hours, 1500km and 54,000' of elevation gain put a major hurt on the legs. One of the more memorable moments was towards the end of a long hard day riding with another pensioner (retired after 15 years in the NHL, although he was only 38 years old), someone called "car back" to which he replied "GREAT, just let it hit me." :-0

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

5/29/13 8:34 AM

@Paul

>>So Dan, does the "or not" part refer to a potential discussion or the potential of great minds being available for such a discussion :-)<<

At our age, the latter also may be an issue (even before a few drinks)...

I haven't done any riding lke yours, but I'm a little stiff today after an 80 miler Monday through the White Mtns, including Hurricane Mtn Rd which is about like 2 miles of Mt Washington.

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RCoapman
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 5137
Location: Back in the snowy homeland

5/29/13 8:50 AM

Mostly agree with Doug. Rochester is about the limit between CNY/Fingerlakes and WNY with Roch not being considered Western. I always tended to think of Utica as the eastern limit and anything past that was ENY. The Adirondacks, where Whiteface (in the original pic) is, actually has an official border of the Adirondack Park.

Have to disagree on the Erie Canal being the breakover between ADK and Catskills, though. There is a fair bit of distance between the two areas. The Canal runs through the relatively flat and low areas where I90 lives today. The closest the areas get to each other is in ENY near Little Falls/Johnsville.

Tug Hill gets more snow than SYR but SYR always gets talked about because it's the largest city between Albany and Rochester. SYR gets more snow than any other metropolitan area in the country but there are absolutely more rural areas that get more, especially the Tug Hill.

"Some folks don't distinguish between Upstate and the dak's"

Yeah, those people are not actually from NY. :)

Ran into a guy from Poughkeepsie the other day here in PDX. He initially said he was from upstate NY and I asked where. When he said Poughkeepsie I laughed, disagreed and said he was from downstate, and we got into a friendly debate about it.

Source- born, raised, and lived in CNY/Syracuse area for most of my life.

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Doug
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 204
Location: In the shadow of the Valley of Death

5/29/13 12:45 PM

Upstate Redux II

[quote]Source- born, raised, and lived in CNY/Syracuse area for most of my life.[/quote]

For the record, my family has resided in Central NY [halfway between Fort Schuyler and Fort Stanwix] since the early 1800's. Prior to that they were in "Western Massachusetts" which became the Albany area when state borders were redefined. Westward migration started in Plimouth Plantation, thence to Providence.
YMMV
-dg

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

5/29/13 4:54 PM

Wikipedia of course has an opinion, or whomever(s) contributed...

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Matthew Currie
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 800
Location: Vermont

5/29/13 8:05 PM

Sparky's map just about gets it, except that the map is pretty generous in what it considers the North Country. Back in the dreamtime when I lived up there among the pines and the porcupines, we'd have been more inclined to draw the line at the bottom edge of those top three counties.

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