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Note on small parts and shipping etc
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17307
Location: Portland, OR

5/8/13 9:00 PM

Note on small parts and shipping etc

Been doing well with small parts on Amazon. 5-6 things in cart and check out and get free ship on all or almost all. I think I paid 4.00 ship on one of 5 items and the price on the item was lowish anyway..

I hate paying $6-8.00 shipping on a disc brake adapter or a front braze on DR adapter etc

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

5/9/13 7:11 AM

Jenson

Jenson (jensonusa.com) also offers free shipping on orders of $50 or more and will price match if you find a lower price on anything.

Lickton's (lickbike.com) in Chicago has a $10/year membership but that includes free shipping on orders over $25 and significant discounts from their listed prices. I bought a pair of Speedplay pedals from them and the free shipping and discount covered much more than the $10 annual fee just on just this one item.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3274
Location: Springfield

5/9/13 7:17 AM

Internet Sales Tax legislation thoughts?

I think it's good. But then again I try to buy local.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

5/9/13 7:18 AM

Amazon Prime

Prime is a great deal--my spouse has it, and other family members get the benefits. You just have to consider shipping costs vs. the price of the Prime items when you decide on a vendor.

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Pat Clancy
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 1352
Location: Manchester, CT

5/9/13 7:57 AM

Internet sales tax

I haven't looked into it very deeply - this is a quick thought.

I think there should be some sort of line drawn regarding a seller's volume. The Internet has made it possible for hundreds, if not thousands, of very small vendors to run a national business. The administrative overhead of tracking sales by state and cranking out (quarterly?) sales tax checks would be significant. It's one thing for L.L.Bean or Amazon. Probably a relatively small coding change in their software. But for Betty Sue Winnebago selling Beanie Babies out of her living room?

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6577
Location: Westchester/NYC

5/9/13 8:12 AM


quote:
I think there should be some sort of line drawn regarding a seller's volume.

Isn't the current proposed has a $1M floor before it kicks in? I think that's reasonably generous.

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

5/9/13 2:48 PM

Amazon

Amazon already collects sales tax on out-of-state internet orders. Nashbar/Performance also collects it but that's because they have retail facilities in PA.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17307
Location: Portland, OR

5/9/13 4:25 PM

"Amazon already collects sales tax on out-of-state internet orders"


I don't ever get charged tax FWIW, on Amazon I mean...

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4419
Location: Nashua, NH

5/10/13 5:07 AM

I live in a state with no sales tax...

...so it won't affect me one way or the other, but IMO it's a really bad idea. It's nothing more than another government money grab. The million-dollar minimum sales limit helps, but that can too easily be adjusted downward once the tax becomes law. It's a classic "slippery slope".

As for Lickton's, how much of a discount do they offer on Speedplay? I need cleats and nobody seems to sell them below MSRP. I've watched a few sets on Ebay and they've been selling for more than MSRP.

I'm strongly considering making a pair of cleat plates from Ti, as I'm tired of the aluminum plates wearing out while the rest of the cleat is still good.

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3635
Location: Brooklyn, NY

5/10/13 6:45 AM

I think it's just a long-delayed leveling of the playing field. States have been losing millions in tax revenues, which means they have to raise the money elsewhere. The question then becomes one of where it's fairer to raise revenues.

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

5/10/13 7:11 AM

I don't know about the Speedplay X-series or it's variations since I bought Frogs. My discount was about 10% plus the free shipping.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6228
Location: Maine

5/10/13 8:56 AM

revenues

Just about all states (excepting "Live Free or Die" New Hampshire probably) already have use taxes that apply to internet (and other out of state) sales for which sales tax is not charged, but there is no effective means of collection. So these measures don't change the amount of tax liability, just whether it is actually collected.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3274
Location: Springfield

5/10/13 11:35 AM

Subsidized the startup of an industry

I haven't heard this one yet.

The no-tax discount provided an incentive to build the web retail industry. Now it's time to level the playing field.

Pro of buying on line? Less shopping time, greater variety & availability, delivery, automobile related expenses
Pro of bricks and mortar? Support local economy, shipping cost saving, immediate delivery, handle merchandise, support, social experience

Think global, buy local

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TJeanloz
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Posts: 166
Location: Boston, MA

5/10/13 3:10 PM

This has been the status quo for mail order businesses for more than 100 years (no sales tax charged out of state). Traditionally, administrative issues have made collecting impossible. When I worked retail in Colorado, sales taxes were different by neighborhood (2.9% state tax, plus 0.1% stadium improvement district, plus 1% RTD, etc). In Massachusetts, we have a whole pile of things that are tax exempt (most clothing under $200, food, etc.). It was virtually impossible for a non-native company to comply with the tax laws of far away states. But software could make that all possible.

As I understand it, the law requires the states to provide a single instance of free software that calculates the applicable tax, AND provide a single clearinghouse for payment. So you'd put the software into your shopping cart functionality, and have to send one annual (or quarterly) check into the clearinghouse. I don't think anybody should have a problem with this. I also don't think anybody should, for a second, believe that this is a true competitive advantage for most products.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6577
Location: Westchester/NYC

5/10/13 3:17 PM

Pro of buying local:
- on the way to and from work or other daily errands. No additional drive time.
- small items == lower sales tax than shipping cost
- immediate availability (e.g. today being Friday, and I need it for tomorrow's morning ride 9am!)
- no return shipping cost
- support of local economy is a side benefit

Pro of buying online

- No driving to store to pickup, gas, time
- On high cost item, shipping is less than sales tax
- Much larger availability
- MAYBE lower cost (though increasingly local stores will price match)

For bike stuff, I definitely buy a lot of them locally, especially when it comes to small item like patch kit, shammy butter (haha!), wheel magnet etc.

But if I'm buying a wheelset, that might be a whole different scenario!

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Russ
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 465
Location: Spokane

5/10/13 3:42 PM

LBS only.

I can't imagine not wanting to have a relationship with someone who cares about my bike and my riding. The potential savings is not worth it.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6577
Location: Westchester/NYC

5/10/13 5:12 PM


quote:
I can't imagine not wanting to have a relationship with someone who cares about my bike and my riding.

Yeah, right. ;-)

"Care" == Some 14 year old working there for the summer, and think he knows everything about bikes!


quote:
The potential savings is not worth it.

The ACTUAL saving of easily hundreds of dollars is worth it FOR ME!

Not to mention they don't even carry what I want half the time.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17307
Location: Portland, OR

5/10/13 5:49 PM

Taxes by region.

I recall NJ had Urban something [renewal?] Zones where sales tax was less. Hudson County being one, and Camden too IIRC.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6228
Location: Maine

5/11/13 4:55 AM

14 year olds?

My LBS has no 14 year olds. I've been going to essentially the same shop (the original and a successor opened by employees) since I came to Portland in 1980. The current owner and one staff were there in 1980 when I arrived. 2 others have been there from the mid-80s, one the mid-90s maybe. I'm a sponsor of the club based at the shop. I get everything from them except for stuff they can't get (Sidi shoes for example, or bikes like Serottas or Tout Terrains) or is too small to be worth their trouble to order. I would not buy anything online because it was cheaper, but most stuff is probably cheaper for me at the shop because I get a 15% club discount. The service, culture and cycling community contribution of a good LBS is important to me.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6577
Location: Westchester/NYC

5/11/13 8:19 AM


quote:
The service , culture and cycling community contribution of a good LBS is important to me.

It's so important to me that I do it myself! ;-)

And it was that knowledge which none of the LBS near me can't provide, that got me started on this forum. :D

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6228
Location: Maine

5/11/13 9:22 AM

Service

Well, if you can competently do everything you want done on your bikes, and want to spend the time doing it, good for you. The other day I was replacing the 8 year old cleats on my road shoes, couldn't turn 2 Allen bolts and rounded them off. There are all sorts of things I could have tried, but I took them to the LBS and they had the cleats off that day. I recently needed the brake line on a hydraulic disk bled. I guess I could learn to do that, but I don't really want to. I'm having them build wheels now. Same deal. They are much better mechanics, and know much more, than I do. But if you are completely self sufficient, more power to you.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6577
Location: Westchester/NYC

5/11/13 9:48 AM

It's not that I want to do the work myself. It's a long string of poor quality work from whatever bike shop near me that drove me to it.

Given enough practice, anyone can do those things well. I'd rather use the time to ride than to work on my bike. But if the kid (and his "trainer") at the LBS can't be bothered to get better at these things working 8 hrs a day than I can on 1/2 hr on the weekend, I'm not going trust my bike to them! After all, it's my life and limb that rides on that bike down the hill at 35+mph!

[P.S.]
Now that I live in Westchester, the bike shops seem to be better at their work and less price gouging going on than the ones in New York City. But the negative side of it is, none of them are on my way to work or my daily routine. So the amount of time spend getting there and back is often longer than the time it takes to do the work myself!

The only period of time that I use LBS extensively were when I lived in the Bay area of California. The bike shops open long hours, are in convenient location (often near group rides starts/end), and the service competant level high. Prices, I recall were not too far off from online prices, partly because many of the "local" bike shops also have a internet store front and takes order online! The fact Bar Area is a cycling hotbed might have something to do with it though.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6228
Location: Maine

5/11/13 1:50 PM

Price check

Just got some Time ATAC pedals through the LBS. I didn't do a price comparison before buying, but looking at it now, compared to ordering from Colorado Cyclist (figuring my club discount, cheapest shipping from CC, and paying sales tax at the LBS), I'm $20 cheaper at the LBS.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

5/11/13 4:03 PM

In general...

...my experience is similar to Dan's. My LBS is a very good one, and tends to price things at or below on-line prices.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6577
Location: Westchester/NYC

5/11/13 4:41 PM

Prices

I don't know where you guys buy online. I often call the shops around before ordering online. I rarely get prices BELOW Nashbar or Performance! Colorado Cyclist, yes, they're not the lowest price online. So often enough the local shops can beat that, but not often they beat the other 2. At best, they come close enough for me not to care either way.

Now, with shipping, the equation changes. For low price items, shipping cost more than sales tax. On the other hand, a lot of the supply I only order once in a while, I simply wait for sales, online or local. And online stores does a much better job of getting my attention of their sales! Particularly in prices that no local shop even come close!

I haven't bought a bike for quite a few years now. That, I get from a shop. Though my last bike, I got it from a shop quite a distance away. By no means "local", but it's the only shop that carries that brand.

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