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The Truth About Exercise With Michael Mosley
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17125
Location: Portland, OR

4/10/13 11:37 PM

The Truth About Exercise With Michael Mosley

Anyone see this? Public broadcasting Channel here in PDX. Assuming it would be on other local PB stations?

You can google it too.


Discuss.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3256
Location: Springfield

4/11/13 9:40 AM

First of all I liked the message.

The problem with this kind of show is people may be casually misled into thinking it is comprehensive.

I think these are his major points:

Intervals are an important part of an exercise regime. (for insulin response)

Most calories are burned just keeping us alive. (TDF peloton not mentioned)

Standing up and moving around is at least as important as working out.

Genetics pigeonhole us from conception.

--All delivered in a moderately paced format with good music and camera work. --With too many long gaps of music and camera work.

I think with scientific anecdotes he reinforces many of the lessons we know. Completely agreeable.

------------

He also had a show "Eat, Fast and Live Longer" that promotes a restricted calorie diet (fasting.) That show provided instances to demonstrate that a diet of day-on, day-off calorie restrictions lowers cholesterol appropriately and generates brain cells.

-----

So according to his BBC specials, to live a long, healthy life with a keen mind you need to stand up all day, walk at any pace, on 3 days a week do one interval set of 3x20 seconds at 100% effort with complete recovery between. All the while, eat a regular western diet of 2000 calories on even days of the month, and 600 calories of the same food on the odd days of the month. And on the 31st day studies show you aren't likely to splurge either.

--This is one example where people might be misled: He asked if a vegan diet would be even better to go with the eat/fast cycle. The researcher said something like "surprisingly not in this one factor." What is misleading is there are many factors, but people are likely to remember "surprisingly not" and forget the exception. Ahem, the exception that I can't seem to specifically remember that is.

Sounds great though, not bad at all. Now, to do it....

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8310
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

4/11/13 1:04 PM

As said the message is good but what was missing is huge.

The benefits of exercise go well beyond weight loss. The cardiovascular benefits make a big deal along with muscle strength and endurance. These things help a person in everyday life. A stronger heart and muscles help from washing the car to walking and shopping in the mall. I have known plenty of skinny yet unfit people.

You can't get these benefits with only minutes a week, if you could we would not see a huge increase in fitness when we out in the hours.

I have seen a 20% estimated power increase on the bike over the last month. That came from time and intensity. I was not, no exercising but I did not have as much time or work as hard as I have lately.

So, yep he did make points for people who where totally unfit. He did not address the full benefits of hard work and time that really pay off and what makes us athletes.


Last edited by ErikS on 4/11/13 2:55 PM; edited 1 time in total

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

4/11/13 2:53 PM

Doctors and other health professionals have been "dumbing down" the recommended exercise protocols for the past several years as they realize that what they used to recommend won't be done by the vast majority of their patients.

Every time a new "labor savings device" or sedentary distraction (video games, 200 channel TV cable, the internet, etc.) comes along the population does less and less physical activity and can't be convinced to do more. So, to get them to do anything at all, they sugar coat the requirements.

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8310
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

4/11/13 3:00 PM

I also found it surprising that some of the "experts" we're soft around the middle and outwardly appeared very unfit.

We know what fit looks like, you can see it in the neck and face of an athlete. I can spot a runner or cyclist in a crowd easily. As can most of you.

The round pudgy cheeks and neck that has no definition most often spells out what lies beneath.

I can see it in myself when I am down on training and up on weight.

Right now, my family is telling me to eat more. :)

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1648
Location: SE Pa, USA

4/11/13 3:46 PM

Why is mental health never a part of the discussion.

I am prone to anxiety and depression. Exercise works. Drugs are unnecessary and an avoidable potential evil if I work out regularly.

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8310
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

4/11/13 4:56 PM

I started my dedication to endurance athletics to deal with stress and other personal demons. It works for me too.

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

4/11/13 5:39 PM

Right


quote:
I also found it surprising that some of the "experts" we're soft around the middle and outwardly appeared very unfit.

I'm sure we've all met doctors that are badly overweight and smoke.

I've been around hospitals where there is a "smoking area" outside of the building and the number of employees, including a lot of doctors and nurses, frequenting these areas is astounding. These people see the dreadful effects of smoking every day and still do it.

Do as I say, not as I do.

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8310
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

4/11/13 7:02 PM

Most people who are passionate about fitness are also passionate about their own personal fitness too.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6495
Location: Westchester/NYC

4/11/13 7:07 PM

Maybe they're not all that PASSIONATE about fitness.

There's a difference between knowing what one should do and doing it. I'm the first to admit I do plenty of thing I shouldn't and don't do enough of what I know I should.

I planned to bike Tuesday, the one day that's dry and warm. But I went to a party instead. Eat lots of junk food, sugary drinks and no exercise. I can't say I didn't enjoy the party. It was a fun party. The price was I missed the only day the weather was good to ride...

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Wayne
Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: Newark, DE

4/12/13 12:07 PM


quote:
Do as I say, not as I do.


Right, the hard part isn't knowing what to do, it's doing it.

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Wayne
Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: Newark, DE

4/12/13 12:11 PM


quote:
The problem with this kind of show is people may be casually misled into thinking it is comprehensive.


I've not seen this guy but a couple of days ago one of my students was telling me about him (I assume it's him, anyway).

The student said he claimed "all" you had to do was 20 seconds of maximum effort exercise 3 times a week to lower your CVD risk.

So it's not just folks are misled, they also misunderstand :)

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 2974
Location: Midland, MI

4/12/13 7:02 PM

Concepts

I just finished watching this and the essential message was that intensity was what was needed to improve your glucose response. The guy being tested (Mosely) has a family history of diabetes and was borderline on his insulin response. The high intensity exercise was obviously totally anaerobic and triggered an improved insulin response. And for many people who are chronically sedentary and NEVER get their heart rates up this may indeed be the case.

But just as the majority of the population will not get the 150 minutes per week of aerobic exercise, the majority will never do bouts of brief high intensity 3X per week nor will they be more physical in their daily routine (walking more, taking the stairs, etc.)

What is new (to me at least) in this program is the improved insulin response. But there is a huge amount of information to be learned - for example does this work in the long term or is it merely a short-term adaptation. This amount of exercise clearly doesn't burn any calories so you still have metabolic energy balances to deal with. And while insulin response is certainly important it would really surprise me if it was the only parameter in the equation.


Last edited by KerryIrons on 4/13/13 6:36 PM; edited 1 time in total

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8310
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

4/12/13 7:41 PM

My point is, this is a pipe dream and has very little good points except the insulin response. The folks would still have a cardio system made of jello.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3256
Location: Springfield

4/12/13 8:53 PM

Absolutely, I wonder how "3 minutes a week" would keep up after the first hour with a pack of similar BMI riders/hikers/skiiers/swimmers/etc who put in 150 minutes or more a week. What is that, 21 minutes a day?

"The student said he claimed "all" you had to do... "

It's entirely possible the host framed it as a question "you mean all you have to do...?"

Considering how kids these days turn perfectly righteous statements into questions with their vocal inflections, it would come as no surprise that a youthful ear tuned in that environment would mistake a literal question for a statement, especially in a casual environment like watching TV. I even hear it on NPR from field correspondents some times. Fingernails on a blackboard. (geezer points! do I get any extra for lofty prose?)

Maybe if someone here who hasn't seen the show is alert to the line they can clear it up. Honestly there's about 10 minutes of content in the 50 minutes produced. And that goes for the other series installment I saw (on fasting.)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/search/?q=The%20Truth%20About%20Exercise%20With%20Michael%20Mosley

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01cywtq

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17177251

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

4/13/13 7:21 AM

Insulin Response


quote:
What is new (to me at least) in this program is the improved insulin response. But there is a huge amount of information to be learned - for example does this work in the long term or is it merely a short-term adaptation. This amount of exercise clearly doesn't burn any calories so you still have metabolic energy balances to deal with. And while insulin response is certainly important it would really surprise me if it was the only parameter in the equation.


If my experience is any indicator, it's short-term.

I've been diabetic for 42 years. I don't train, and I don't really ride for fitness, but I do ride to get places and for fun. I *am* an OGWGFIW and, alas, never can do the Jan thing of getting "fit" again. I suspect Erik would (correctly) not consider me an athlete.

During the portion of the year when I ride (which is usually 10 months) I notice a significantly lowered need for insulin. Typically, I'll take six units (.06 ml) of synthetic fast-acting human (Humalog) insulin or so per "normal" meal, plus a 14-unit dost of baseline (Lantus) insulin. Sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less, depending on the size of the meal.

During the dark days of winter, when I can't ride, I may require 2-3 times as much Humalog insulin, and my bg level tends to float a bit higher.

This difference shows up even if my rides are quite short--let's say 10 miles per day.

These are not high-intensity rides by any means, just commutes. After something more intense (a century, say) I do need to be wary of low blood sugar for twelve hours or so, so it's possible the effect is even more pronounced with intensity.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4303
Location: Nashua, NH

4/13/13 9:08 AM

Intensity vs. endurance exercise

Andy, it seems that you may be confusing these. Intense exercise is typically short in duration and endurance exercise - like a century - is typically low in intensity. It's generally a direct trade-off that you can only exercise at a given intensity for a specific period of time before reaching exhaustion. To increase one, you must decrease the other.

As for the effect of endurance exercise on your insulin needs and such, I'm not qualified to even speculate.


Last edited by Brian Nystrom on 4/13/13 4:50 PM; edited 1 time in total

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

4/13/13 9:30 AM

Hmm. Intensity

You may be right. For me, intensity is exercise hard enough to make me SWEAT. A century may drain my glucose reserves significantly more than brief periods of exercise, so that might explain things. I consider a century more "intense" because for me it takes a concerted effort to ride the damn thing! And because, often, I make the mistake of falling in with a group of faster riders (drafting is fun) and then falling off the back, near-exhausted, after 10 or 20 miles. Then I have to recover and finish...

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 2974
Location: Midland, MI

4/13/13 6:40 PM

Intensity

In the context of the TV show and the points being made by the researchers, "intensity" is "as hard as you can go for less than a minute." They were using 20 second intervals as their intensity. So this has nothing to do with a long ride where you significantly exert yourself.

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Wayne
Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: Newark, DE

4/15/13 5:26 AM


quote:
In the context of the TV show and the points being made by the researchers, "intensity" is "as hard as you can go for less than a minute." They were using 20 second intervals as their intensity. So this has nothing to do with a long ride where you significantly exert yourself.


Right, for the last decade or so there has been a growing body of evidence that "sprint" training can be advantageous for various patient populations (e.g. chronic heard failure, COPD, etc.). Sounds like this guy has taken that information and is popularizing it?

I taped it this weekend but I haven't watched it yet.

I can't say off the top of my head that I recall specifically how well these sorts of intervals have been shown to influence insulin sensitivity but I wouldn't be surprised if they were highly effective. After all, weight training seems to have the largest positive effect on insulin sensitivity as compared to most other markers of metabolic health (e.g. blood pressure, cholesterol levels, etc.).

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6155
Location: Maine

4/15/13 7:01 AM

sprint workouts

I know nothing of the physiology, but I've been thinking of incorporating some old school sprint workouts anyway. I used to do 5 20-25 second sprints with full recovery (which I think was recommended in some book). It's actually a pretty easy workout, and maybe this is another reason to punch it up a bit.

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

4/15/13 7:59 AM

Indoor Trainer?


quote:
During the dark days of winter, when I can't ride, I may require 2-3 times as much Humalog insulin, and my bg level tends to float a bit higher.

Could you put a bike on an indoor trainer and use that to keep your exercise levels more consistent and your insulin requirements down?

I'm not talking about the "boredom express" and spending hours of looking at a blank wall but maybe 30 - 45 minutes of moderate effort in front of the TV or DVD. I have one bike dedicated to a relatively plain Performance fluid trainer that I use when the roads are too dicey to ride outside or it's too cold. I can make my self do almost an hour a day on it and it's a good workout. It also keeps me used to the saddle.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

4/15/13 8:06 AM


quote:
Could you put a bike on an indoor trainer and use that to keep your exercise levels more consistent and your insulin requirements down?


I've tried that in the past. I hate trainers, but I can do 30 minutes on rollers, and now that we have a house with sufficient basement space, I may end up doing that this coming winter. Alternatively, I may just hike to and from work--there's a shortcut that makes it about 1.5 miles.

My problem with exercise has always been that I absolutely hate exercising. Riding works for me as nothing else has because the exercise is pretty much incidental to the joys of riding and the function of transportation.

Rollers give you the sheer terror aspect of riding (greased glass mountain ledge), so it's not quite so boring as "exercising." Rollers plus Mad Men? We'll have to see...

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

4/15/13 3:08 PM

Another BBC presenter concludes the opposite from his colleague Dr Michael Mosley.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22150091

"BBC presenter Andrew Marr blames his recent stroke on overworking and an overly vigorous exercise session on a rowing machine."

Sandiway

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Wayne
Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: Newark, DE

4/16/13 2:57 AM

[quote]Another BBC presenter concludes the opposite from his colleague Dr Michael Mosley.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22150091

"BBC presenter Andrew Marr blames his recent stroke on overworking and an overly vigorous exercise session on a rowing machine."


quote:


If there was a significant risk here one would think weight training would be out of the question as it markedly drives blood pressure up, much more so than even the most intense aerobic-type exercise, like rowing.

No doubt some people have had strokes precipitated by exercise but if you're going to argue exercise is potentially bad you might as well stick with what is well documented. Namely that you're much more likely to have a major cardiac issue during exercise and this is probably related to exercise intensity when it comes to aerobic exercise. Although something like "sprint" training would probably lower this risk. The basic idea of sprint training is to provide a significant stimulant to the muscle without stressing the cardiopulmonary system.

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