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Tubular users among us? Poll, ;)
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Tubulars
Still do, tubed like old school
30%
 30%  [ 3 ]
Used to, don't won't
50%
 50%  [ 5 ]
Never stopped rolling them
20%
 20%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 10

Author Thread Post new topic Reply to topic
Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

8/29/22 5:34 PM

If the tape in your rims doesn't stretch from bead to bead, so that the seated tire is on top of the tape, that's likely to be the problem. These guys sell quality rim tape in a variety of widths at great prices:
https://www.ebay.com/str/holdfastcycling

Their tubeless valves are good, too. They're in MA, so local delivery is pretty quick.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/29/22 6:39 PM

I've had side wall seepage issue mostly. But same with day, little extra inside and massive shakey shakey..

I did have one set I had to alternately lay on the side after juicing to get sidewall to quit seeping..

I've done well with the 3x Kapton tape with a single layer of a bunch of the blue Pacenti I had bought in big rolls. For tubeless I mean. Agree width attention required.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

8/30/22 4:27 AM

I have some Maxxis Ravagers that constantly bleed sealant through their sidewalls. Oddly, they don't seem to lose pressure, at least not at a noticeable rate.

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1724
Location: SE Pa, USA

8/30/22 7:33 AM

Also, I've had the issues Rob notes with a failed valve at the rim washer...

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3234
Location: Midland, MI

8/30/22 2:52 PM

Convinced

You guys have really convinced me to stay with tubes. Not that I needed much convincing.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/30/22 3:32 PM

After 2 seasons of road tubeless I started buying latex tubes again. What I used to think was too expensive turns out is way cheaper than tubeless.

I do still have 2x bikes with 28mm tubeless in the garage... For someone like me with so many bikes to ride it maybe makes even less sense. For road PSi I mean. OK for off road low pressure use, maybe...

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

8/30/22 8:19 PM

I would never go back to tubes for off-road use. I haven't tried road tubeless yet, mainly because I don't need more wheels.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3234
Location: Midland, MI

9/2/22 2:01 PM

Summarizing


quote:
I would never go back to tubes for off-road use. I haven't tried road tubeless yet, mainly because I don't need more wheels.


From a number of highly experienced mechanics I know, this summarizes the situation with the possible exception of some who have tried road tubeless and gone back to tubes.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

9/2/22 2:59 PM

FWIW

I came across this article by gravel monster Ted King on selecting gravel tires. He says “tubeless is your friend” - I guess he can set them up to avoid the leakage I’ve had.

Since he left the peloton in 2015, the narrowest tire he’s ridden is 28mm and his ultimate go fast road tire is 32mm Rene Herse Stampede Pass, which requires tubes (this is about the only similarity between Ted and me. :).

He's also a founder of nutrition company Untapped, cool guy.

https://www.renehersecycles.com/ted-kings-tips-for-choosing-gravel-tires/

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

9/2/22 5:24 PM

What's with the following porn stash chase? ;)

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RCoapman
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 5137
Location: Back in the snowy homeland

9/3/22 10:51 AM

LOL, those are definitely some bushy upper lips.

Speaking of comfort and tires...I checked the tubulars before i went out and they were a little low, not topped them off in a bit, so I got them back to 120psi. I ended up regretting that. I felt every bloody pebble and crack in the pavement and knocked the family heirlooms against the saddle a couple times on bigger ones which is never fun.

Tubeless have been a PITA so far, but damn when they work they are definitely an easier ride. And I think I will let the sprinters run at a lower pressure....need to look and see what the recommended bottom end is...

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

9/3/22 12:06 PM

We got no business on 22-3 tires being at or above clyde delineation..

My 28mm Hi-Carbon Tufos on a S-Works disc Roubaix [stiff] are fairly orgasmic rolling FWIW.

You could get away with 25mm LGGs @ 95 I bet...

Both those tubeless and sealant should be more effective than latex tubes in tubs. Plus no long periods of deflation and tube sealant gluing to itself etc...



Last edited by Sparky on 9/3/22 12:11 PM; edited 1 time in total

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RCoapman
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 5137
Location: Back in the snowy homeland

9/3/22 12:10 PM

The sprinters are 25, not 22, but I still felt them at 120. I used to race them at 170, like WTF was I thinking?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

9/3/22 12:35 PM

Old habits die hard on PSi. Especially tubulars. 140 on 22s when I was a 165 lb teen was normal.


I did not realize those were made in 25s..

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

9/3/22 12:53 PM

Calc

Rene Herse tire pressure calculator says for combined bike/rider weight 250 lbs, and 25 mm, 106 (soft ride) - 110 (firm) psi. For 28, 82-101.

I’d get the biggest tires you can fit, but that’s just me.

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RCoapman
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 5137
Location: Back in the snowy homeland

9/3/22 1:56 PM

Well, this bike is getting me through until the Pursuit arrives. By the time the winter comes it will be mostly retired. It's unlikely to go through significant changes (meaning expense) before then. 25s are glued on and rolling for now and I'll ride them until the new girl shows up.

That being said, appreciate the numbers and I think I'll keep em at 95ish from now on. Was a major difference in feel

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

9/3/22 2:44 PM

Looking back

I used to figure any pressure was OK as long as it was 100. I may have pumped up to 110 a few times, but think I generally stayed at 100. Used Sprinter 21.5 sewups for years. I got up to around 230 at my max, though I could ride half decent at that weight. Moved down to maybe 95 with 25-26. Now I’m around 195, ride 32s on the road at 60-65. Like Ted King says, I thank him.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

9/3/22 3:09 PM

"The sprinters are 25, not 22, but I still felt them at 120. I used to race them at 170, like WTF was I thinking?"

I remember that back in the day, one of Conti's major marketing points was that their tires could handle more pressure than other brands, which encouraged people to ride ridiculously high pressures. Except maybe for time trials, I don't think I ever raced on more that 110 psi. However, my racing weight was 151# and off-season I ballooned all the way up to 155! I would typically drop that extra tonnage in the first two weeks of training in the spring.

I miss the old days <sigh>.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

9/3/22 3:45 PM

I just read Ted's article. Gee, do you think he might be sponsored by Rene Herse?

Shameless sponsor plugs aside, it's insightful stuff. However, I only have two sets of wheels for my gravel bike. One runs Maxxis Ravager tubeless 40's on Stan's Iron Cross wheels. I ride them on everything from packed dirt to singletrack, with a few pavement transitions thrown in. I don't roll very fast regardless of what rubber I'm on, so I don't stress over whether the pronounced, somewhat squishy knobs slow me down a fraction of an mph. I'd rather deal with that than swapping tubeless tires, which is where things get messy.

The other set of wheels are the carbon Niner's that came on the bike. They're fitted with Schwable Kojak 35s that the bike's original owner gave me when I bought it. They have tubes because neither the wheels nor the tires are tubeless compatible. I've really only used them when I've been on vacation and was going to be riding both roads and gravel with the same bike, and really didn't want to ride knobbies on the road. They're definitely cushy, but I'm not as confident on them at high descending speeds as I am on my road bikes with 25 mm Conti 4000S IIs, but I don't know if it's due to the difference in the bikes, the tires or both (most likely the latter).

If I had unlimited funds, I might buy set up a bunch of wheels and try a bunch of different tread patterns and tire sizes like Ted. As it is, that ain't gonna' happen.


Last edited by Brian Nystrom on 9/3/22 5:33 PM; edited 2 times in total

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

9/3/22 4:25 PM

Sponsorship

FWIW, RH says Ted is compensated for collaboration with product R&D, but is free to use whatever tires he wants in events. Anyway, I doubt he would use them if he thought there was something better. And the article was written for RH. A number of top riders use RH tires. It is a tiny company compared with most mfrs.

And the point of the article is principles of selection, not specific tires.

I will say that I found the 32 mm Stampede Pass superior for my purposes to any other road tire I’ve used.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

9/3/22 5:41 PM

I haven't tried any of their tires -mainly because of the price - so I really can't comment. I can't recall anyone saying anything bad about them, so apparently they're quality products. I find their site and philosophy about bikes to be rather quirky, but that's intentional on their part; they just cater to a different area of the cycling pantheon. It's not likely that I'll ever find myself applying shellac to cotton handlebar tape, but to each, his own.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3234
Location: Midland, MI

9/5/22 8:59 AM

Sponsorship


quote:
Gee, do you think he might be sponsored by Rene Herse?


RH doesn't sponsor riders. They do have close relationships with a few riders and sometimes give them tires to test, but there are no sponsorship deals. Their tires are pricey. I don't ride them, but them but those that do report good things.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

9/6/22 5:44 PM

Ted and Jan again

Here’s a fun video on Ted’s Cannondale vs. Jan’s Rene Herse. Bonus: Ted uses a Berthoud mirror!

https://www.renehersecycles.com/teds-cannondale-and-jans-rene-herse/?utm_source=Retail+Customer+Newsletter&utm_campaign=ba647f6e93-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_11_29_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_f74fbd5ca8-ba647f6e93-108703741&mc_cid=ba647f6e93&mc_eid=1124689c2b

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

9/6/22 7:29 PM

I was thinking of trying the RH Pumpkin Ridge for autumn here, woods and gravel for when we see some water...

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