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Lightyear Zero
 

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/10/22 7:55 PM

Lightyear Zero

https://youtu.be/lM6BHvgvrVc

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RCoapman
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 5137
Location: Back in the snowy homeland

8/11/22 4:39 AM

I'm sold on the idea of vehicles using renewable energy but, as I understand it, the overall claims of 'greeness' are still highly exaggerated for a couple reasons-

1- much higher carbon footprint for manufacturing, esp due to mining required for battery components
2- no real way to recycle or effectively deal with end of life batteries

So while EVs may reduce greenhouse gases, the environmental impact is still quite significant at scale.

I fully admit this is just stuff I've read on the internet and may be entirely nonsense so if I'm wrong, please advise.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/11/22 9:29 AM

The on going co2 output saved is VG.

The monthly diag report on our Bolt claims "Estimated CO2 Avoided:" 762-903 lbs
-per month so far for year we've had the car.

My PHEV van has the carbon footprint co2 output of a 1.5 liter honda fit. Mine far less co2 as my use is high EV only. I won't hear gas engine at all for months on the myriad of local store runs and bike ride start use.

Our trips to coast are 4.5 hr of rolling and worst is 53/47%in favor of EV propulsion. That jives with Honda fit co2, as the mpg comes in actually better for van mid 40s for trips to coast. If trip was more flat it would be 47+. The coastal range [up and over] costs economy/efficiency. Our total fuel costs with these two cars is about 70.00 month, elec&gas. The fit used 90.00/mo @ 2.75 gal just for Elaine's work commute. That be $140+ now alone. Van and the lawn mower use about same amount of gas, during mowing season. The hot make grass dormant so I look at brown instead of mowing green. Occasional summer dandelion trim/mows not with standing...

Manufacturing greenness or lack there of acknowledged. But arguably once for each vehicle, well 2/3 over life with battery replacements?

But the CO2 emissions is ongoing day to day for life/use. No free lunch an all that, but 10 years of my 2-1/2 ton van in normal use having the same C02/lbs into atmo as a 1.5 liter car, and the 3 days of 116 degrees we had last year is something to ponder.

This year we've had a full week high 90s and are about to get another 4-5 days of it. >WV Dan here and my Sis in TN are having some super hots these days/years. So like TN was, getting rides done before heat hits full tilt is getting more common here, was not like this 2011-2019 here. Granted a few periods here, where 2002-2009 in TN was an every summer thing, and long summers.

Our first 6 years here we use AC in the summer numbered in days per year FWIW.

EDIT: just checked mileage and gas receipt. 227 miles of a coast trip cost $23.70 in gas. Dog, bike, cooler and beach sundries et al. More than could fit in a Fit, or a Bolt. ;)

Ran into a rider I used to ride a lot here with with a broken chain side of river path the other day. Pushed him back to the van a few miles and popped both bikes in with room to spare and drove him home.

Side note: his 20+ collection of minty road bikes be like a museum trip for lots of us here. Times, Nagos, Orbeas, Lots of steel and bonded tubed carbon lugged stuff. Cool Boxter and a M1 in the garage too. He never uses the cars, just bikes all the time @ 75. Life is good. ;)

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

8/11/22 4:01 PM

CO2 footprint etc.

I have a Tesla Y, which I love, and also a solar array (with a Tesla storage battery and Tesla gateway - the brains of the system) which contributes highly to charging the battery (I’ve only had to charge on the road a couple times in 2 years of ownership, and it is cheap and no hassle). I can’t claim to have done a full analysis of the costs of mining, etc., and there are definitely trade offs, but many analyses say e-cars on balance are far preferable environmentally to ICE cars. I accept that, though I have not independently verified each detail.

Even independent of environmental considerations, I much prefer the Tesla to any car I’ve had. There is virtually no maintenance. I am not a performance type driver, but my car (which is not the performance version) goes 0-60 in 4.8 seconds, with instant torque anywhere. I previously had a Saab 9-5 and an Audi A4, and the Tesla drives rings around the Saab and rides and handles a bit better than the A4. And in today’s dollars, costs no more new than either. Compared to ICE cars of similar quality, I don’t think I pay any premium for the Tesla (and that is without any rebates, for which Teslas (at least in Maine) are not eligible).

Just my $.02.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/11/22 6:14 PM

Did the Y come with orig owner free Tesla juice for ownership life??

We took a friends Tesla S to Tacoma last week. Beast of a road car. Comfortable, and the Curtlo which is a 59-60CM [with bars too high for me] fit in with the rear seat folded in thru hatch, and with front wheel on too. And the 26x26x12" case went in behind the passenger seat.

That impressed me... He has a Tesla Power wall and solar on the house etc..

How much power it took on via Tesla Supercharger in 35 minutes impressed me even more.

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2625
Location: Canberra, Australia

8/12/22 1:45 AM

We've had a Hyundai Kona EV for about two and a half years, and are extremely happy with it. The cost of keeping it charged is essentially nil, as we have 10kW of PV on our roof. Only when we take it on long trips do we need to use a public charger, and as my wife is a member of the local automobile association, which has installed quite a lot of public chargers, if we use one of theirs, that doesn't cost either. We did a 1000km round trip in the car back in May, and total fuel cost for the entire trip was $8.44 for the one commercial charger we had to use. Service costs are bugger-all as well compared to those for an ICE vehicle.

Then there's the other end of the EV spectrum - the Rimac Nevera - 0-60 in under two seconds and a quarter mile in under nine seconds. All you need is a spare couple of million Euros:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk6Zb9VKkuA

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

8/12/22 6:21 AM

Free juice?

>>Did the Y come with orig owner free Tesla juice for ownership life??<<

No.

At the Supercharger, it knows who you are and automatically bills your credit card.

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RCoapman
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 5137
Location: Back in the snowy homeland

8/12/22 7:52 AM

My main issue with getting an EV is that I need a truck. While I love to drive my current Silverado, it's a gas hog. At best it only gets about 26mpg on the highway at 65 with cruise.

Chevy is coming out with a full electric truck next model year. I'm interested but skeptical of being a beta tester. I'd prefer a Tesla because they obviously have the deepest experience with mass producing EVs and everyone I know who has one absolutely loves their. But the cybertruck, ungainly in both name and appearance, is currently vaporware and I'm not holding my breath.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/12/22 10:17 AM

My friend got his S used, no free super charger juice. Hits his card as you say.

But the charging station is a real tesla talk get together I learned. John was the only one outta 5 others charging that it wasn't free with car.

Including a used SUV with gull wing rear doors, model X? Guy said they negotiated it at purchace...

Rob. Rivian R1T maybe? EV F-150 looks to become a market leader.

These trucks cost so much to buy, amortizing costs with lower propultion cost going to take a while, no?

It is kinda like when jet turbo fans came out in business jets. The fuel pigs got a lot cheaper. Fuel and jet lease payments all write offs.

I bought a c Caddy Eldorado convertible in early 80s for cheap, guy lost his shirt to get a Honda Accord. I figured i could buy a lot of gas with the $4k under market price I $aved..

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

8/12/22 4:17 PM

Free juice

Free lifetime juice was included as an incentive with some early Xs and Ss (the more expensive Teslas). Sometimes standard, sometimes as an option, sometimes transferable to a new owner, sometimes not. I believe it’s no longer offered on those models, and has never been offered on the Y.

In 2+ years of ownership I’ve probably spent less than $100 on commercial charging.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

8/14/22 7:14 AM

"These trucks cost so much to buy, amortizing costs with lower propultion cost going to take a while, no?"

Add in the cost of financing and it gets even worse. It seems that many people simply don't take this into account.

From an environmental standpoint, the lowest impact vehicle is the one you don't buy, as that eliminates the enormous impact of building it in the first place.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/14/22 12:29 PM

I use the word amortizing a lot talking about it.

Even my PHEV van I managed to buy for about 28k with tax credits & deq rebate, and the equity in 2017 CRV. Making for stupid low amount financed, stupid low interest on that loan, yada.


Try that buy today. Van is no less than $18k higher that the +$46k sticker which I got $10k off in 2020, in addition to $10k in tax/deq incentives. Selling for over that higher sticker now as well. The van costs about more than I paid for ours additionally today. Incetives not higher yet, and when they are you gotta have the tax burden to get the ptojected optimum 12,500 that may get passed thru, but i doubt all the will anyway..

I don't see how I'd repeat the buy in this climate...

I did not need to replace a 26k mile CRV, but the numbers worked easily for the justification.

Car max offered me 43k for it in February site/sceene. Unreal really.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3234
Location: Midland, MI

8/14/22 2:23 PM

Drive


quote:
From an environmental standpoint, the lowest impact vehicle is the one you don't buy, as that eliminates the enormous impact of building it in the first place.


AND the one you don't drive. From a depreciation standpoint it is mostly about time. But if you drive less and spread that over a lot more years, then the impact per year from fabrication, driving, and recycling at the end all drop.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

8/14/22 2:26 PM

A really low impact vehicle

Is the one you don’t use because you’re riding your bike!

Electric bikes are promoted now as climate friendly as they can replace cars for a lot of errands, commuting, etc. I think there is potential. Sure you can do it without the e-assist but I think the assisted bike has a potentially much wider audience.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

8/14/22 4:58 PM

These days, I think I see more people on e-bikes than regular bikes. Hopefully, they're all new riders, either just getting out for some fresh air or using them for utilitarian purposes. It seems like a high percentage of the ones I see are of the "electric moped" variety where the riders rarely pedal. They typically have 20"-26" fat bike tires and some appear to be folders. I see an occasional e-MTB, but I don't think I've seen any e-road bikes. Hmmm. Maybe more road riders are stubborn like me and reject the siren call of the e-bike. ;-)

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2625
Location: Canberra, Australia

8/15/22 1:22 AM

On the last tour we did in Europe (2018), I would say we saw as many or more people cyclo-touring on e-bikes than on bikes.

And our local retirees bunch here in Canberra (mostly ex-racing cyclists), who meet for a reasonably hilly 60-80km group ride a couple of days a week, now has several riders who turn up on e-bikes (all quite nice road e-bikes, such as the Trek Domane LT+, Focus Paralane, Orbea Gain Road). Most of those riders are around 80 years of age, and one of them commented to me that before getting the e-bike, he had been considering no longer coming on the rides, as he had been getting to the stage where doing them on a standard road bike left him feeling shattered, whereas with the e-bike he can still get a decent workout without completely exhausting himself.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

8/15/22 6:21 PM

I'm hoping I can hold out until I'm 80!

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/15/22 6:47 PM

I set up a test ride with 2 Domane HPs to try to get my 81 year old friend to try it out. He is not riding more than around the block anymore.

The day I did set it up I tooled around a little on a 60.
The 60 and the 56 for him were to be charged and waiting next day. The quickie ride on the 60 gave me one assist and battery was done.

These were the alloy models, and the 60 was at least 35+ lb. But it steered and felt OK sans the nose bleed stack. Not yet for me, and John begged out of the test ride. And he can afford it, so I did not push the issue.

I miss the rides we did often up until 4ish years ago...

Regarding weight, the module can be removed and an extra cover makes it look almost normal. The module is the motor and battery and IIRC 7+lb.

So the Carbon HP [-5 lb?] with the module out I think can be as light as 22ish lbs. Disc bike with 32s for prospective... going from memory such as it is.

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