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Tubulars, trip back to the dark side complete...
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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4667
Location: Nashua, NH

7/11/20 8:14 AM

Plugs are for tubeless only and won't work with tubulars. Once a tubie is flat, even if you manage to get the plug through the casing, there's no way to force it through the hole in the tube.

It's also not uncommon for air to leak out of a tubie at a location other than the puncture site. For example, you may get a pinhole in the tube, but the air finds the path of least resistance and leaks out of a larger cut in the tread or at the valve.

Just run sealant, hope you don't get any large cuts, and always carry a spare tire. That's life with tubulars.

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2676
Location: hillbilly heaven

7/11/20 9:20 AM

" Plugs are for tubeless only and won't work with tubulars. Once a tubie is flat, even if you manage to get the plug through the casing, there's no way to force it through the hole in the tube."

Brian are you saying that tubeless tubulars, the title of this thread, have tubes?

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6420
Location: Maine

7/11/20 11:27 AM

Nomenclature

Actually the plugs are for Closed Tubeless Clinchers, as well as Tubeless Closed Open Tubulars. :)

The plugs are basically identical to what we used to fix flat tubeless car tires when I worked in a garage in the late 60s. Simple and effective. So I bet they work fine with a compatible puncture.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17844
Location: Portland, OR

7/11/20 4:07 PM

The plugs are smaller ga. is all. I keep the heavy ga. ones in my car for when I use my trailer instead of a spare. Only use locally anyway. 12v compressor yada...

The Clement PDX toobie may have started it all.

I predict the entire tubular market sans track tires will all be tubeless, and those in time... Being and expert now and all... Just guessing really.

Best my new education has learned me, Tufo, Clement [now Donnelly] and now Challenge are doing it. Tufo has for a while it seems.

I am spying the Clement Strada LGG 700x25. Or Donnelly as Clement inventory runs out.. for tubular White wheelset I just [stole] which has like new $129.00 ea. PDX CX tubeless sewup tires.

CX tire getting listed/sold as soon as CX season starts here, if/when.

My hopes are for a 27mm version of the Strada. Somthing tubeless and heavy enough for practical non race use for mere mortals. Even the S33 Tufo training? tire is not anything one could consider durable out on the road.

I'll take the weight for the durability and still benefit from the glide.

I want to try those 25 LGG toobies on the Look 585, Something dfacs said to me that has stuck.

Time to change different things about what I am riding I decided. Instead of just collecting N+ like I have been.

Sold of 1/2 dozen last few months... replaced 1/2, right direction...

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2486
Location: Canberra, Australia

7/11/20 5:26 PM


quote:
I predict the entire tubular market sans track tires will all be tubeless, and those in time... Being and expert now and all... Just guessing really.

Best my new education has learned me, Tufo, Clement [now Donnelly] and now Challenge are doing it. Tufo has for a while it seems.

Tufo has been doing something similar for a long time - I can remember using Tufo tubulars in the early 1980s which used sealant repair goo.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17844
Location: Portland, OR

7/11/20 5:48 PM

PDX CX tubulars are made same place as Tufo, by Tufo maybe?

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4667
Location: Nashua, NH

7/11/20 8:51 PM

I wasn't aware that anyone other than Tufo was selling tubeless tubulars and my comments were about traditional tubulars. If you want a great deal, I've got a Tufo Jet that I'll sell you cheap. It's a whopping 21mm wide and should roll wicked smooth!

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3065
Location: Midland, MI

7/13/20 9:34 AM

Justification


quote:
Just run sealant, hope you don't get any large cuts, and always carry a spare tire. That's life with tubulars.


And there you have it. Most of the reasons not to run tubulars.

As far as Tufos. I assume they are still crap tires? They certainly were back in the day and I've never heard anything to suggest otherwise since. But maybe they improved?

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2676
Location: hillbilly heaven

7/13/20 10:26 AM

I would not carry a spare tire with tubeless tubulars. Id carry a plug kit and a small amount of sealant. Thats what has changed my mind about considering tubulars. I think they make more sense than tubeless clinchers where you also must carry a tube and do battle with the tight fit.

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2676
Location: hillbilly heaven

7/13/20 10:31 AM

As far as i know Tufo tires are garbage.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6420
Location: Maine

7/13/20 12:25 PM

Whaaaaa?

Dan are forgetting the fabulous tubulars you could put on clincher rims?

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2676
Location: hillbilly heaven

7/13/20 3:19 PM

Dan those tubular clinchers would roll off like an unglued tubular in a corner in a cross race. We spent an hour trying to get one back on but the "bead" was damaged and we funally just threw it away.

Also, the tread was like a hard plastic and had absolutely no grip whatsoever on the knobby cross version.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6420
Location: Maine

7/13/20 3:24 PM

Yeah

I never used one but was being facetious as I also understood they sucked. Kind of the worst of all worlds. Or an answer to a question no one asked.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17844
Location: Portland, OR

7/13/20 4:34 PM

I heard nothing positive about those tubular/clinchers, all bad to very bad with some injuries in the stories...

I had some S33s that came on a set of DVUL Reynolds 46mm tubulars I bought. Guy literally drove the front wheel into his garage on his roof rack after first use and destroyed front rim and tire. He sold me the intact rear wheel with glued S33 and his new unglued S33 spare with the front hub.

He actually cut the DT Areo bladed spokes to free the hub to send for rebuild, the price was astronomical, he chickened out.

I managed to get a NIB rim outta Denver, and the spokes he cut out cost me $55.00 to replace, ouch!

I replaced the front rim, glued up and rode them a few times. The tires rode nice for a skinny tire, but I was in it for the money and not the flats... Besides I was 230 lb, and 22mm tires not tenable then, and I'd not do them now @ 200 lb.

Dunno if they were tubeless, or before they started doing that. Not even on my radar at the time.

I'd not buy them for use in the real world personally.

Hard to sell even minty new with a few rides, but later traded for my 29er I still have.

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1688
Location: SE Pa, USA

7/16/20 9:37 AM

I do love fmb's, but they are some fragile suckers. So are Dugasts.

Lately my faves are Veloflex-Roubaix or Vlandderen

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17844
Location: Portland, OR

7/16/20 9:46 AM

How are the Veloflex-Roubaix running. I mean actual inflated width. It seems my last 9 tubulars where all exactly the size on the tire. I guess when it is closed VS open it is more of a constant. My clincher rims are 15-21c widths, tires sit way wider on a 21c VS 15c.

Ironically I run bigger tires on the 15c, they have 32-3mm tires.

My next toobies will be 27s, tougher service, like a cobble tire. The more I ride the 30mm Strada, the more I find myself going ahhh when hitting crud/holes/chatter et al.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4667
Location: Nashua, NH

7/16/20 11:20 AM

Of course tubulars are unaffected by rim width; they're always going to be the same size, even if they're not on rims. The only thing that can make any difference is the tire pressure, but even that won't change them a lot.

I suspect a lot of the variation between the advertised size and actual width of clinchers is that there is no "standard rim" for manufacturers to use when measuring them.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17844
Location: Portland, OR

7/16/20 11:35 AM

Obviously Brian, perhaps I misstated my point.

Clincher wise I have 25mm Conti and Pro 4 SC that are 28 and 29mm. I have some 28mm GP4K that even on 17c rims wont fit most of my bikes. On a 17c they are almost 31mm

Better question might have been do any, and which tubulars might run small or large for what they are labeled?

These 30mm Strada tubulars have not gone beyond 30mm when inflated for riding, albeit relatively new still. Two days sitting I just measured them at 29.3 for example. Probably @ 35 PSI I am guessing from my pumps ups after sitting 1-2 days thus far.

Time will tell if it is safe to assume a more accurate sizing VS clinchers etc.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4667
Location: Nashua, NH

7/17/20 4:44 AM

The fact that tubulars don't vary with rim width makes it really easy for the manufacturers to publish accurate size data. I would tend to take them at their word. I still have some Conti and Sprinters and Triathlons that are marked 22mm and they measure 22.5mm at 100psi.

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1688
Location: SE Pa, USA

7/29/20 1:22 PM

I haven't actually measured-I run a Roubaix front on my Ottrott simply because a Vlandderen won't clear the brake caliper.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6420
Location: Maine

7/29/20 4:26 PM

Ottrott

How are you liking that Ottrott, Greg?

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1688
Location: SE Pa, USA

8/3/20 6:50 PM

Its pretty much my steady ride. Have a bunch of more modern bikes, but none are as versatile. I have high zoot carbon (Berk) and ti (custom) bikes which are probably racier, but they don't match the overall smoothness of the Serotta, at very little loss of efficiency. It does have a higher headtube than I'm used to, but it allows a -17 stem, which looks cool. Overall, I can't believe its approaching 20.
Ben is back with a line of bikes, but unfortunately he's being met with skepticism given his last flame out.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17844
Location: Portland, OR

8/3/20 7:28 PM

"Its pretty much my steady ride"

We never saw the finished bike rolling. Campy?

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1688
Location: SE Pa, USA

8/5/20 9:30 AM

Yeah, SR 11 and Lightweights. EE brakes in red. Quarq pm with sr decals

Went down on it yesterday as hard as I've ever fallen, but luckily landed in a wet lawn, so just a bad headache. Block from home on way out, front tubie went POW and it was like a roadrunner cartoon-the bike just shot out from under me...no damage other than to the bartape, thankfully. Went home, grabbed a wheel off the Berk, and went back out.

This is an older photo, the CCU's are sold and its on Gen 2 standards now.



The Cysco kid-SR 11, quarq with decals and raw ti Ciamillos


The Berk-DA 9000 di2 and THM fibulas, Sram red crank w stages

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17844
Location: Portland, OR

8/5/20 10:25 AM

All super, Berk kinda really cool on top of that.

Glad minimal casualty list there, eeshh..

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