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E-bikes, not the commuter type.
 

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17908
Location: Portland, OR

2/4/20 11:31 AM

E-bikes, not the commuter type.

https://www.velonews.com/2020/02/culture/its-happening-now-e-bikes-at-gran-fondos-and-group-rides_504324

On the lighter side:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDa1Ns9hvho


And no, not considering one for me, possible Elaine may eventually succumb. She is painfully slow uphill, as in it quite painful for her to endure even my pace up hill which I consider pitiful. [my pace not her considering it].

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2490
Location: Canberra, Australia

2/10/20 10:00 PM

We go riding every Friday with a friend who has recently purchased an Orbea Gain Road. He's been a cyclist for many years, but now that he's past 70, found that he was having problems staying with the group on hills. With the Orbea, he can use the assist to keep pace with the group when we're climbing. That's about the only place that he turns it on - he says that on flat ground, without any assistance from the motor, the bike feels pretty much the same as and doesn't feel any slower than the Scott road bike he was previously riding.

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Anthony Smith
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 848
Location: Ohio

5/12/20 9:51 AM

Pet Peeve

Man these things are one of my pet peeves.

They are just underpowered electric motorcycles for the lazy and slack. Age is no excuse, I am one of the "old people", and in addition I have a 92 year old teammate who goes north of 30 mph on an actual bicycle. Disability is no excuse, I have a couple post stroke teammates who do just fine, even using just one side of their body.

If you have a condition that limits you to riding say 5 miles at a slow pace then that is what you should do, and push harder and harder until you can go a little faster or a little farther. You should NOT be assisted by a motor.

Bicycle riding is about sweat and blood and the ability to suffer, set against a society that wants everything quick and easy like a big McDonalds, and pushed by a greedy bicycle industry that wants to enable this.

If you want to ride one of these things, it and you should be licensed as a motorcycle and have to comply with those requirements. They are not bicycles and should not ever be considered bicycles.

In my view, the only thing they should be legitimately used for is motorpacing, in lieu of my highway legal 50cc Honda, so I wouldn't have to suck the exhaust fumes.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3067
Location: Midland, MI

5/12/20 10:27 AM

Speak up

Tell us how you really feel!

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17908
Location: Portland, OR

5/12/20 11:49 AM

" Age is no excuse, I am one of the "old people", and in addition I have a 92 year old teammate who goes north of 30 mph on an actual bicycle"

Honestly, you sound like the petulant child cyclist. ;)

Some prospective: (?)

I have watched the eldest of cyclists (75++) on the Friday social rides just stop riding the 30 milers, shortest the club has except beginner rides or lala stuff... reasonable averages I mean.

There would be typically 3 group splits, and the lead group would get to the coffee stop, have coffee and be leaving as the elders just rolled in. Yes as a 60 year old whipper snapper I'd be in that front group. (63 now as of last week).

These guys have been in this click for decades, it is the highlight of their life at this point, and the right power assist bike is a gift to them.

I stopped the club rides. But last 1-2 seasons and now bumping into 75-80 year olds I recognize with said bikes. They can now ride to and from the start as well and once again join in again due to the tech. I also now see them solo a lot while I am out might just sigh deeply at whipper snapper jargon such as this.

These are assist tech bikes, not ones with a throttle. You use 'turbo' mode and the range is less than what the shorter senior rides are. They avoid hilly rides as it shortens the range.

There are some guys 5 years older than I which I could not get around to do a pull on the front when they Tempo/TT mode. 1 out of 1000, ask mother nature who they are. The other 999 should buy into the tech when it will keep them out riding with folk if so desire, plain and simple IMO.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4701
Location: Nashua, NH

5/12/20 6:03 PM

While I admit that I'm not fond of e-bikes, I've seen both sides of the coin. It also strikes me that the real issue isn't simply unpowered vs. powered bikes, it's the mixing of the two. On one hand, I've watched people enjoying rides that they couldn't possibly do without the assist, due to the distance and/or terrain. They were having fun, which is what it's all about, isn't it? That said, they weren't always aware of how their powered antics were being perceived those of us who were working our butts off, but I still can't begrudge them their enjoyment.

OTOH, I've seen other people who use their motor as a way to insert themselves into group rides where they don't belong, like the local 20mph+ rides, where they're really not welcome. This is especially problematic when the e-biker is inexperienced and unskilled. When I see someone sitting bolt upright on a 60+ pound e-hybrid, complete with a rack, rack bag, mirrors and a kickstand, but sitting in with a fast group, I have to shake my head. When they go blowing past other riders on hills, as if they're actually accomplishing something by doing so, it's really annoying. When they use the motor as an excuse to not bother to try to get fit, it's hard to respect them. When they don't respect basic pack etiquette, it can be infuriating.

So, I guess the bottom line is that there are no bad bikes, but there are some e-bike riders who cause problems - or even just hard feelings or disgust - when they mix with the rest of us. Some, but certainly not all. Personally, I prefer not to ride with them, as it often diminishes my enjoyment. That said, if they aren't bugging me, more power to them (pun intended).

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3226
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

5/13/20 5:08 AM

It kind of depends...


quote:

Bicycle riding is about sweat and blood and the ability to suffer, set against a society that wants everything quick and easy like a big McDonalds, and pushed by a greedy bicycle industry that wants to enable this.


If that is cycling for you, great. But while that may be true for some people, it's not true for all. I ride to relax and to go places. Most mornings during COVID, you'll find me on my bike looking for interesting photographs. I seldom average more than 14 MPH on such rides.



I'm not ready for an eBike yet, and I hope I never need one, but things happen. My repaired hip works well, but if it stops working some day, it's nice to know that there are possibilities. For social riding, yeah, I could see eBikes.

I tend to agree that there ought to be some kind of licensing/designation for eBikes, but I also feel like it's not quite the same as motorcycles.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4701
Location: Nashua, NH

5/13/20 6:09 AM

It's easy to lose sight of the fact that the vast majority of people who ride bikes are not like us. They're recreational riders, commuters and others who don't adhere to the "blood, sweat and gears" approach to cycling. E-bikes can have great utility for such folks, so their popularity is understandable. Are some of them just typical, "lazy American" types? Sure, but you can't paint them all with the same broad brush. They're individuals, just like us, and their needs, goals and desires vary, and change with their circumstances. E-bikes are already classified, regulated and even banned in some areas. It will take some time to sort out the best regulatory regime for them and that will vary by location, too.

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rickhardy
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1481
Location: Needham outside of Boston - the hub of the universe

5/13/20 10:19 AM

Leonard Zin article

https://www.velonews.com/gear/zinn-e-bike-can-life-changing-lifelong-cyclist/

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17908
Location: Portland, OR

5/13/20 10:53 AM

Jens on Powered Domane

And I do mean 'on'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDa1Ns9hvho



https://www.bikegallery.com/product/trek-domane-hp-373080-1.htm

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stan
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 463

5/13/20 5:44 PM

Used to one of my pet peeves too. But now after recovering from cervical surjery and some damage surjery couldnít repair, Iíve gotten slower, especially on hills. Iím considering one just so I can still ride with the same group.

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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: South of Heaven

5/14/20 5:44 AM

I view bikes as an environmentally friendly and energy efficient way of transport. I view E-bikes as repugnant in that regard. Much the same for the push towards (multi) ton electric vehicles over combustion engine ones that move people. It's trading dirty air for dirty land (and potable water supply).

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3676
Location: Brooklyn, NY

5/14/20 9:23 AM

E-bikes, in my view, have a place in the arsenal of transportation options. Within urban environments, I think they ought to be speed limited, maybe 15 mph. That's fine for deliveries, commuting, and running errands. I suspect a lot of people may even feel uncomfortable going much faster than that.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17908
Location: Portland, OR

5/14/20 9:44 AM

I am more likely to ride shorter distances on pedal bike as I age, but these jazz me as a side hobby cycling avenue maybe in the future...

https://mikeshouts.com/kosynier-boardtrack-electric-bicycle/

Battery board track replica with full elec propulsion.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6444
Location: Maine

5/14/20 3:46 PM

Sympathy for Lennard

I donít care much for e-bikes, but I can well sympathize with Zinn. With a couple cardiac conditions Iíve received various suggestions and have experimented with riding with a cap on hr, and man, if youíre limited to 110 you canít do much. No problem with a e-bike under those conditions.

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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: South of Heaven

5/24/20 8:01 AM

Dito that sympathizing with L Zinn. FWIW, I notice my HR is limited to such while riding my single speed bike. I find much more enjoyment in such activity cycling with my son and other kids his age learning on longish, scenic rides for them (20 miles) than taking the road bike out for a solo spin. Like Zinn, a friend of mine with a heart condition, now spends his days riding slowly on technical mountain bike trails.


PLee - NYC needs to clarify and maybe expand/update its local laws and enforcement on "pedal assist" bicycles.

I think, as a blanket statement, most of them currently in actual use are illegal, from what I observed. That is the motor is *only* to be used while actively pedaling. Specific emphasis is to be noted on pedaling. I see many riding them without pedaling.

The NYC law also prohibits models traveling faster than 20 mph and must be less than 750 watts of horsepower.

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3676
Location: Brooklyn, NY

5/30/20 7:51 AM

JS - And it looks like the 2021 budget bill has a more comprehensive bill to legalize e-bikes and e-scooters in NYC.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17908
Location: Portland, OR

5/30/20 9:07 AM

"comprehensive bill to legalize e-bikes and e-scooters in NYC"

Big win in certain circles: Delivery folk...

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