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Amtrack WA [Tax bill comment added]
 

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16737
Location: Portland, OR

12/18/17 12:46 PM

Amtrack WA [Tax bill comment added]

Fuck, my kid was originally supposed to be on the route but decided to drive. And it was going to be today for travel. The usual route through the gorge was not bookable due to the wildfire that closed I84 for over a week.

Glad I invited his room mate for xmas. My kids car not up to the trip, his room mates car is a lot younger.

Wonder how long I5 is going to be closed now?


Last edited by Sparky on 12/20/17 2:16 PM; edited 1 time in total

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16737
Location: Portland, OR

12/20/17 2:06 PM

I'll ask this here. For no particular reason.

Is DT correct with his elation of the tax bill passage when he brags repealing the mandate is "essentially repealing Obama Care" to quote him?

I guess they will have to dismantle it in increments.
Is there also medicaid cuts in the tax bill that accomplish further dismantling/repealing et al?

More than one way to skin a cat...

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2505
Location: hillbilly heaven

12/20/17 2:42 PM

I take great pleasure in turning the TV off whenever they are showing him speaking.

I just saw a news blurb that said he FALSELY claimed they effectively repealed ACA.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3213
Location: Springfield

12/20/17 3:11 PM

It's a great example of a 'dog whistle.' Trump's voice saying "the end of Obamacare" makes the ears of the faithful/cult/base/pack perk up reflexively.

It's funny, now that I think of it, the insults like 'snowflake' and 'trigger' spawned to demean 'liberals' were quickly spun around and used by those liberals to describe the behavior of Trumps base. But "dog whistle" has so far kept the above context.

You know it just kind of rolls off the tongue: "faithful cult base pack."

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3213
Location: Springfield

12/20/17 3:14 PM

Time to golf

I heard a new catchphrase insult to predict Trump's reaction to something.

"Time to Golf"

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16737
Location: Portland, OR

12/20/17 4:28 PM

Dan,

yeah, this makes sense. i heard the early version that he actually said 'effectively', a word he must gave learned recently. ;) Which I heard before I hitting the fast forward to stop hearing him. news buffered in my DVR. I can't listen to him myself.

So you can see how by his third 'atomic' tweet loosing the mandate becomes ACA being repealed completely.

But loosing the mandate 'is' dismantling, my point and question as to validity. As long as his base thinks it means it, his work for the day is done. He can then claim news saying it isn't repealed is fake news of course. And they'll follow...

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3608
Location: Brooklyn, NY

12/21/17 6:30 AM

Of course, the original goal of the Republicans was to repeal and replace. I guess they forgot about the replace.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6426
Location: Westchester/NYC

12/21/17 7:18 AM

They didn’t forget.

It’s easy to destroy but hard to build

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6037
Location: Maine

12/21/17 9:41 AM

Replace

The Republicans only made noise about replacing because public opinion now wants a form of national health insurance.

Republicans have opposed all social insurance since prior to the New Deal.

Whatever they do, long term I think there will be national health insurance in one form or another because the public will demand it. I think that will be a historic legacy of Obamacare.

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Craig
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 554

12/21/17 10:42 AM


quote:
Republicans have opposed all social insurance since prior to the New Deal.


Kind of not completely true, sort of.

Back when Romney was governor of Massachusetts, he was presented data on health care by Amy Lischko (Division of Health Care Finance and Policy) and he was convinced that mandated health care, the essence of Obamacare and the basis of social insurance, was the way to go. Romney implemented the strategy with success. It was the Republicans that proved the theory, and they only railed against it when it was no longer their idea.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/06/06/romneys-dilemma

"According to Murphy, Lischko, and Gruber, Romney believed that the logic in favor of a mandate was impeccable. Federal law requires emergency rooms to treat patients regardless of their ability to pay. “This is not Calcutta,” Murphy said. “We don’t let people go and die in the street. And then the question is, Who bears that cost? Those costs get paid by increased premiums for the people who do buy insurance, or they get paid for through socialized costs and claim our tax revenues and come at the expense of other things that people might want to do, like building roads and bridges. And in the Republican Party that I grew up in—go back to the welfare debate, it’s about personal responsibility—that seems pretty reasonable.”
Republicans had been discussing the idea for years. In 1990, the Heritage Foundation made the individual mandate a linchpin of its health-care plan, arguing that it should be part of “a two-way commitment between government and citizen.” The government would help individuals buy insurance, and, “in return, government would require, by law, every head of household to acquire at least a basic health plan for his or her family.” The head of the family would make the decisions."

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6037
Location: Maine

12/21/17 10:59 AM

Kind of

I didn't mean every single Republican, and I didn't mean state governments. Nonetheless, probably I should not say "all," instead "nearly all."

Even nationally there have been exceptions, for example the Supplemental Security Income program ("SSI") began under Nixon. But in general Republicans oppose progressive social insurance. There are maybe 3 or 4 in the Senate now that actually favor national health insurance.

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Craig
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 554

12/21/17 11:28 AM

And that's why I put a "kind of" disclaimer, because it's never been proposed (that I know of) at a national level.

Another tidbit I learned recently was that Obama opposed the mandated health care approach while H. Clinton supported it in the 2008 primaries for Democratic leader. It wasn't until after Obama was selected that he was convinced, in no small part by the Romney example, that it was the way to go. So the Republicans can be thanked for Obamacare, in a way, sort of.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6426
Location: Westchester/NYC

12/21/17 12:06 PM

I thought Obama only supported universal health care to get the Clinton supporters to vote for him.

Like what a lot of people say about Hillary, I’m never sure what Obama really believe in either.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16737
Location: Portland, OR

12/21/17 12:21 PM

Reading these last two messages it sure reads like OB/team may have cherry picked a prospectively popular agenda in this area.

Was this the case?

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Craig
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 554

12/21/17 12:26 PM

https://www.nytimes.com/podcasts/the-daily?campaignId=67HX6&gclid=CjwKCAiA1O3RBRBHEiwAq5fD_OHHcYKIUtOjcVqdUukyWvx7x-k3S08K9U78gwzsbXZ-WUPb-cxFnBoCfVcQAvD_BwE&dclid=CND74IXdm9gCFZRnfgodQEQFbA

Listen to Wednesday December 20th Podcast. Very informative about this topic, if it's something that interests you.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3213
Location: Springfield

12/22/17 8:05 AM

The podcast mentions at ~19:45 that DJT has pledged to sign it before Christmas.

Of course if he waits until 1/1/18, "unpopular slashes" will not take effect until 2019, after the election.

But to the news organizations' credit if their recent behavior continues they will keep the voters aware of the impending cuts as election day approaches.

----

Thanks for the podcast link. It's nice that it is outside of the NYT pay-wall. They also have an MP3 download option site to compliment the streaming service.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16737
Location: Portland, OR

12/22/17 12:29 PM

FYI


quote:

Johnson Amendment repeal was blocked by the Senate parliamentarian. Because of a requirement called the Byrd Rule, reconciliation bills—which are passed through a simple Senate majority—cannot contain “extraneous” provisions that don’t primarily deal with fiscal policy


I guess the GOP couldn't unzip their fly on that one.

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