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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 2857
Location: Midland, MI

8/10/17 10:20 AM

THADD

Shooting down NK missiles


quote:
That would amounts to a declaration of war


Yes, but NK has already said that they are planning a launch against Guam, so it's not a great leap to say that any launch by NK needs to be taken out lest it be that actual launch toward Guam. It certainly is possible that attempts to shoot down NK missiles might just result in embarrassment for the US military, but even that would inject some reality into what otherwise makes Alice in Wonderland look like a documentary.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3780
Location: Nashua, NH

8/10/17 10:26 AM

Did you all forget Libya?

While it was their chemical weapons that got most of the attention, they had a decades old nuclear program that was dismantled as well. The reason that worked is that Gaddaffi could be negotiated with and convinced that there was no upside to his development of nukes (or chemical weapons). We obviously don't have that in North Korea and it's highly questionable whether we do in Iran. If Kim gets a pass, why wouldn't Iran revive their program? The insane deal that Obama signed onto removed the sanctions so they can rebuild their economy and resume their nuke development whenever they feel that they have enough cash on hand to survive the inevitable reaction. As long as they're run by Islamic whackjobs, they're going to be a threat. However, there's at least a reasonable hope of change there. Dealing harshly with North Korea may just be what it takes to convince them that there's no upside to their nuclear ambitions.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6117
Location: Westchester/NYC

8/10/17 3:12 PM


quote:
As for Russia's and China's development of nukes, they are large countries with a wealth of resources. We couldn't have stopped them under any circumstances. Although we were seriously concerned that the Russians might actually use their nukes, it was obvious that China simply wanted into the "nuclear club" in order to be taken seriously on the global stage. They were never an actual threat to attack anyone, no more than India was.

I don't know where you got that idea!

China put a lot of resources into developing nukes as a direct result of the Korea war! General Douglas Macarthur, the commander of US troop in Korea, advocated going all the way into China to finish off the North Koreans retreating towards the Yalu river. And when China entered the war and beating the US troops back temporarily, he openly advocated using nuclear weapon on China!

While he was ultimately relieved of command by the President, the Chinese leaders realized how vulnerable they are WITHOUT that ultimate "trump" card. It is true the Chinese leaders never threaten any other country with using nuclear weapon, it STOPPED the US from even THINING about dictating China!

North Korea had been under threats for much of the years after the Korean war. It's not hard to understand they would like nothing better than to "protect" themselves by having that ultimate strike weapon.

Does North Korea has more or less resources than Afghanistan? Or Iraq? How much of a "walk over" will it be in comparison? In the west, we all ASSUMED the local population were "suffering" from the oppressive government and would be jumping in joy for their "liberation". How wrong were those assumptions! How confident can we be on what may become of North Korea IF we remove the current mad man?

Just for a better perspective. Korea is a bit of a Asia version of the Balkans. It's been the excuse for quite a few wars between the different nations of the region. China and Japan went to more than one war over Korea. So much for it being a "country of little resource".

Last edited by April on 8/11/17 9:10 PM; edited 1 time in total

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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1027
Location: South of Heaven

8/10/17 4:34 PM

Libya is not a fair comparison as their nuclear program never started. N Korea has obviously and Iran is far along and can do so soon -for all we know or don't know they are still at it.

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4227
Location: metro-motown-area

8/11/17 6:49 AM

the reality about NK

it's an opinion piece, but this passage speaks Truth:

"So-called normal American administrations have been outfoxed by the Kim family for decades. The reclusive leaders of the Hermit Kingdom have known that the only thing the United States can do to prevent them from developing nuclear weapons and long-range ballistic missiles to carry them is to start a war that would devastate the Korean peninsula. That option was, and is, so bad that the Kims have calculated that they could bluster, stall, make agreements only to break them, and generally thumb their noses at the West with no risk of serious consequences.

[snip]

The only way to stop North Koreaís march toward deliverable nuclear weapons, short of a bloodbath, would be for China to embargo all trade with and economic support of Pyongyang, effectively starving Kimís military. But while China doesnít love the idea of a nuclear North Korea, it has always preferred that to the risk of a destabilized regime perched on its border"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-korobkin-trumps-craziness-as-a-negotiating-tactic-20170811-story.html

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 2858
Location: Springfield

8/11/17 10:03 AM

I have hope.
1953: Mao would never have let the country protecting his border be overrun. The Chinese and the Soviets still had the notion of "the party." Thank goodness strongman Eisenhower was President because McArthur and LeMay were willing to nuke Peking (sic.)
1988: ROK Joined the OECD and hosted the Summer Olympics, basically a coming out party.
2017: The Chinese understand how the situation has gone out of control and their part in it. The Russians have a policy of "strength through mischief." The U.S. has factions that effectively used the First Amendment to polarize via dictatorial phrasing. ROK made the flat panel you're looking at. DPRK is stuck in 1953, successfully fending off the invasion.
Hope?
Yeah, the world understands how unstable the situation is and many parties and layers in the parties are going to stand on the leash shaking their heads while the dogs bark at each other.
Worry?
Yeah, some missile test may throw a chunk of metal at Guam, some surely neglected electrical transformer in Pyongyang might cascade a power blackout, basically, an accident might startle one of the dogs and the leash breaks.

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2299
Location: Canberra, Australia

8/17/17 12:55 AM

Don't know whether it's made the news over in the US yet, but New South Wales cabinet documents recently made public after 30 years show that when Trump put in a bid to build a casino in Sydney in 1987, the government of the day rejected the bid after the NSW Police Force expressed concerns about Trump's links to the mafia.

p.s. I now see this story *has* made it to US news outlets. e.g. http://www.newsweek.com/trumps-alleged-mafia-connections-sydney-casino-651352

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Rickk
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 504
Location: Montreal

8/17/17 4:26 AM


quote:

North Korea had been under threats for much of the years after the Korean war. It's not hard to understand they would like nothing better than to "protect" themselves by having that ultimate strike weapon.

Does North Korea has more or less resources than Afghanistan? Or Iraq? How much of a "walk over" will it be in comparison? In the west, we all ASSUMED the local population were "suffering" from the oppressive government and would be jumping in joy for their "liberation". How wrong were those assumptions! How confident can we be on what may become of North Korea IF we remove the current mad man?


+1

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3780
Location: Nashua, NH

8/17/17 5:07 AM

I didn't say that anyone would be jumping for joy...

...what I said was that they've been so brainwashed, oppressed and starved that the likelihood of them being able to revolt against their government was essentially zero. How are those two things even remotely similar???

April needs to learn to read what people actually write and understand it , not read what she wants to see and comment on it. This crap of her putting words in other people's mouths is really getting tiresome. I'm perfectly fine with people disagreeing with me and offering opposing opinions (that's how we learn, after all), but I'm sick of having someone reinterpret what I say and twist it into some stupid-sounding argument in order to make their point. I held back on saying anything after her initial response, as I figured others would read it and just shake their heads at how far off-base she was relative to what I said, but enough is enough.


Last edited by Brian Nystrom on 8/17/17 5:15 AM; edited 1 time in total

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6117
Location: Westchester/NYC

8/17/17 5:14 AM

Did you get off thw qrong aide of bed today?

I thought this thread was pretty quiet about the "Charlottesville flip flop"...

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3780
Location: Nashua, NH

8/17/17 6:31 AM

No April, I'm just tired of your nonsense

As for Charlottesville, it was an absolute disgrace. Whether it's a case of "tone deafness" or (more likely) Trump not wanting to alienate any supporters, it was absolutely inexcusable. Watching business leaders fleeing his advisory panels and at least some Republicans openly criticizing his statement is heartening, as it put us one step closer to a full-on Republican revolt against him. If the Russia investigation turns up anything seriously damaging, that will be the tipping point <fingers crossed>.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6117
Location: Westchester/NYC

8/17/17 8:15 AM

Which part of my "putting words in other people's mouths" that was NOT what you wrote?

(I meant what you WROTE, not what you INTEND to write)

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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1027
Location: South of Heaven

8/17/17 10:14 AM

message encoder and decoder

>> (I meant what you WROTE, not what you INTEND to write)

or #3...a matter of reading comprehension

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3780
Location: Nashua, NH

8/17/17 2:51 PM

Nice try at translating...

...but I have no idea what she's trying to say. Frankly, I'm not sure that she does, either. At this point, I really don't care.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6117
Location: Westchester/NYC

8/17/17 6:58 PM

Wasn't trying to "say" anything! It was a question in case you didn't noticed.

Some odd choice of strong words just to say you "don't care". ;)

Everyone will have their own impression of whether you care or not. So I won't put any words into or out of anybody's mouth.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 2858
Location: Springfield

8/18/17 9:28 AM

Look at the bright side, we aren't suffering under the drama and division of the Clinton impeachment.

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3507
Location: Brooklyn, NY

8/18/17 11:27 AM

45 is apparently quite a Civil War history buff:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_of_Blood_(monument)

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15870
Location: Portland, OR

8/18/17 11:39 AM

River of fake blood, well at least the local...

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3507
Location: Brooklyn, NY

8/18/17 11:53 AM

And quite the grammarian, too . . .

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3780
Location: Nashua, NH

8/18/17 5:01 PM

You mean you want facts and accuracy?

What's wrong with you people!? ;-)

You're apparently forgetting that Trump lives on "Fantasy Island", although I'm sure he's renamed it "Trump Island".

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4227
Location: metro-motown-area

8/18/17 6:07 PM

...such a covfefe...

#trumpsteaks

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15870
Location: Portland, OR

8/20/17 11:37 AM

My 'covfefe', [one] is that I can't watch and enjoy House of Cards anymore. What was used to be creative writings is reality, or at least now it is obvious, had it already been.

Maybe another season of Brain Dead will have to suffice for political drama.

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4227
Location: metro-motown-area

8/21/17 6:55 AM

such an inspiring tweet

*heal*

<img src=https://scontent.fdet1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/20914191_10212621908014528_9119353057937981036_n.jpg?oh=943c3012df2d7f0d9f5472d4a7dbc84c&oe=5A2A259E>

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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1027
Location: South of Heaven

8/21/17 8:15 AM

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3780
Location: Nashua, NH

8/21/17 8:27 AM

We just watched "Dr. Stranglove"...

...for the first time last night. It felt strangely like reality TV.

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