11/25/14 2:08 PM

Just on weight, the Schwalbe One Tubeless for example is 340 grams for a 25C, plus sealant weight. Which if you think about gets spun outward to the most effect as to rotating mass, possibly the drag of it in the casing under acceleration ?

50 grams of sealant in a 23-5 if you go light. Let's say 400 grams?

25C GP4 is probably 235gr in real life, + ultra light tube of 65 grams. Lets say 325gr for sake of comparison.

Then we have folks using double layers of rim tape or gorilla tape to keep it tight. So possibly edging the weights heavier for the tubeless tape VS tube setup tape??

Just other factors for me on a road bike. Just don't see a worth attraction in the end.

11/26/14 6:31 AM

...you have similar air pressure and I've had zero issues with clinchers sealing punctures. As for the amount of sealant, I never use anything close to 50 grams in a road tire (or an MTB tire, for that matter); I typically use 1/3 to 1/2 of the recommended amount and it seals fine. All you need is enough to coat the interior of the tire with some left over to promote clotting.

Moreover, even if there is a significant loss of pressure, having some pressure left in a tire is always better than riding on the rim, as at least you have a degree of cornering control and can brake. That alone can be a huge safety advantage.

I haven't made the jump to road tubeless yet, but that's only because I don't need any new wheels.

We're starting to build a fat bike for Linda and that will be tubeless for certain, but that's also about the easiest application for the technology, since she'll probably end up running 5 psi or less.

11/26/14 10:54 AM

What sealant are you using? And what tubeless tires?

"you have similar air pressure" ??

I used a small Stans bottle in each tire. 2 oz. So you think that is 2-3 time more than needed?

I did not flat in the tubeless setup I should clarify. But did loose a rear tubular where the goo just kept blowing out when I pumped past about 60 lbs..

I do like the way the tubeless rim bead really holds onto even a normal tire bead. Last front flat I had with tube where I lost all air [rim tape creep] the tire stayed seated. As I stopped looking down I saw equal tire hanging past the rim on both sides and the rim did not touch and the tire did not even squirm. When removing to replace the tube, it took a fairing strong purposeful effort to pop the bead from the rim, which I think is a very good thing.

I don't know if it being an open Vittoria helped it stay symmetrically flat and seated or not.

11/26/14 11:37 AM

For outdoor year round I use Vittoria Open cx evos. Also ok on rollers. For trainer I use a Tufo tubular clincher. Wont blow out or delaminate. It is on a seperate wheel. Have been thinking to switching to a Tannus tire for the trainer.

11/28/14 8:07 AM

The 2 ounce bottle is WAY more than you need for a road tire. I use that much in 2-4 tires, depending on their size. For MTB tires, half a bottle is plenty. I realize that this is much less than they recommend, but unlike them, I'm not in the business of selling sealant. ;-)

There are issues with using a lot of sealant. As you mentioned, there's the weight, which I fully appreciate as I've always been somewhat of a weight weenie. For me to add weight to a wheel, there needs to be a significant pay-off to doing so. In this case, it's worth it to me.

The second issue is that if you have a lot of sealant in the tire, it can form balls that roll around in the tire or an "oyster" that sticks in one spot (the latter requires that the wheel sit unused in the same orientation for an extended time). This doesn't happen if you use less and has never happened to me. When I open a tire that's been used for a while, the inside is uniformly wet and a SMALL puddle of sealant forms at the bottom. If the sealant has mostly dried out, there will be a pretty even coating of latex on the inside of the tire. This can easily be peeled off if one is inclined to do so.

Although I have yet to suffer one since I started using sealant, there are certainly cuts that sealant cannot repair. We have to be realistic about it. I don't expect miracles, but it has eliminated all nuisance flats from thorns, wires, staples, minor glass cuts and the like.

I wonder if some of the reason that I don't get flats is that I run the lowest pressure that I can safely (no squishiness when out of the saddle or pinch flatting). A softer tire is less prone to being punctured or cut than one that's pumped up rock hard, as it conforms more to the things it runs over.

11/28/14 10:30 AM

"softer tire is less prone to being punctured or cut than one that's pumped up rock hard"

This has been my experience as well. And boy, the ride is a lot lot better too.


EDIT: I got the tubeless Pacenti SL25 Disc Only Rims for the XTR NOS disc hubs. Short some spokes I need to order. Most of my inventory is 293-5-7mm etc.

The SL25 Rims came with enough tubeless rim tape to do 4 wheels. And a Pacenti Tee Shirt ;).

Maybe I will get some 25mm Schwalbe One Tubeless and give a full season try again, or this time as far as full season goes. ;)

I really only did a few rides on the 23mm Hutches tubeless setup before they got traded out against my buds 1/2 interest in/of the Scott. As I said, part of my reasons for bailing were the tubular sealant failure. Bad luck? 22mm tires and 120 lb air probably helped pop that tire when I hit the chunk of glass. None of which will be the case with any/next tubeless setup. Bigger tires, not tubular, lower air pressure, less sealant [with current understanding] thanks to Brian.

Also after having to get spokes from AU for the DA Scandium Wheels after one broke, I wanted to go back to normal spoked/built wheels. Oddly, they are sitting on the Six13 I just built up for my friend. ;)

Yada, yada..

Last edited by Sparky on 11/28/14 1:35 PM; edited 1 time in total

11/28/14 1:19 PM

Icy crap all over the roads, studded Hakkas on this am, first ride pm. All is good. Augmented my winter wardrobe with Craft tights, gloves and hat, all excellent. Doubt my road tires will see asphalt before March or so.

11/29/14 1:19 PM

We're going to do a group trail ride on the 'cross bikes tomorrow, when it should be over 50 degrees.

I hope the snow melts quickly at home, as I never got rid of the leaves in the yard before the storm. I got a leaf blower at an estate sale last week; it was only $10 because it wouldn't start. A buck's worth of fuel tubing and an hour of cleaning and repair later, it runs like new! Now I just need access to the leaves again. Worst case, I'll use it the next time we get a dusting of snow... ;-)

11/29/14 5:19 PM

Rode into the office today at 14F. Only other bike I saw was a fat bike, guy came over a snow bank out of the bank with a big smile on his face.

Tomorrow in the high 40s they say. Either the cross bike or the CT. Probably CT, any long ride will get into some ice, and I don't really want to do a couple hours on studs. Probably could ride OK on cross tires, but I'm too old to fall on ice like a dumbass and break something.

11/29/14 9:18 PM

That's why I head for the woods when it's cold and/or icy. I really don't even think about road rides until it's around 40 (or more).

I wish I could do long trainer rides, but I just hate it. More than anything, it's being on a bike that's rigidly held in place that really bothers me. Maybe something like a Rock N Roll trainer would help, but I can't justify dropping that much on something that I may not use. Good rollers are too bulky and I'm not sure that I really want to risk riding them, either.

11/30/14 11:03 AM

I'm actually getting into them. Of course I'm motivated as I have a difficult ride in April. Just rode 2 hours on the CT, and I can say I enjoyed all of it. I'm comfortable sitting on it, and doing courses and looking at data is a distraction/game. Using it in stand alone mode, should have computer/video stuff set up shortly.

Looking at my watts reminds me of the commercial with Aaron Rogers working out with Hans and Franz: "Row row row your boat gently down the LOSER Stream!"

11/30/14 12:23 PM

quote:

---

I really don't even think about road rides until it's around 40 (or more).

---

quote:

---

That's why I head for the woods when it's cold and/or icy.

---

11/30/14 8:14 PM

quote:

---

Just rode 2 hours on the CT, and I can say I enjoyed all of it.

---

12/1/14 11:26 AM

Cyclothymia?

And other possibilities at my age...

12/2/14 7:31 PM

Here is your next goal after Majorca:

http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/man-breaks-worlds-most-boring-cycling-record

12/15/14 12:37 PM

Rode the Vittoria Diamante Pros for the 1st time outside yesterday. Three hours on familiar roads in variable conditions--near downpour in 1st hour, lots of debris on the roads from a windstorm two days ago. (Thank god for road disc brakes.)

Noticed a huge improvement in ride quality from the tires they replaced (Lithion 2 front and Conti Ultra 3000 rear, same tubes, approx. same width). Grip with the Vittorias was good and I had complete confidence riding in rain.

I really enjoyed riding the Vittorias. The improvement was noticeable from the first rollout and I wish I'd made the switch years ago.

12/15/14 3:53 PM

I used Contis for years and switched to Vits about 5 years ago. The improvement in ride quality is the big plus. I use the Pro IIIs (150 tpi) and have found no negatives whatsoever. The only flats I get are in the last 20% of tread life, unless I run over something stupid.

12/15/14 4:27 PM

Where do you go? I bring my road bike when I visit my friends in East Denmis, but the Surly might be fun. I assume you mean Cod, not Ann.

12/15/14 5:39 PM

Mine are Diamante Pro IVs and listed as 220 tpi. Compound also seems fine on my trainer (KK).

12/17/14 6:44 AM

There are quite a few areas with trails and I'll have to get Linda to put together a list, as I don't remember what most of them are called. Trail of Tears is a popular spot with a wide range of trails and terrain. There are several interconnected trail networks in the area around the IFAW facility in Yarmouth, which again offer a lot of variety. These two areas are regularly maintained, so the trails are generally rideable all year long.

I'll try to get more information for you. There's also a NEMBA Chapter that you can get in touch with.

12/17/14 12:22 PM

Used to pop up to the cape pretty frequently. It has been a long long time since we rode Cape Cod. But we rented bikes and I remember a pretty long paved multi-use bike/walkway.

When I say long ago, I had a trailer with my Son Steven in it. He is 23 now. ;) The trailer impressed me enough I tried to buy a used one from the rental place. I laughed at the price they told me, and got one back in NJ for 1/4 that new missing one piece I fabricated [rubed ;)]. Shoulda known better than buying something on the cape you can't eat. ;)

Additional Cape story. I got two coolers full of 1st off fish from a vendor that jumped on my wallet when I told him I was willing to buy a shit load for cash. So he said if I spend $500.00 I could anything he had for $5.00 a lb. 1st load was 65 lb and I paid 6.00 lb.

For the next two years I used to fly the Piper up and usually dropped 600.00 per trip. The cost of renting the plane almost equaled out the savings on the fish. An excuse to log some X-Counties flights.

Talk about the proverbial $ 100.00 Hamburger.

The Swordfish was selling for about $11.00+ a lb in NJ for example. And mine was at least two days fresher. ;)

Unlike JFK Junior, I rode the CT coast when flying in the dark. From the same field he hangered his plane. I flew over 11 fields, he flew over none over the water. Just a fun fact. ;)