10/16/14 7:29 PM

It's time to build wheels and I need to know what the effect of an off-center rim will be on spoke length. I'm planning to use Velocity A23 OC. For regular A23 rims the spoke calculators say 294 mm NDS, 292 DS (3X pattern). I assume that using an OC rim would bring these two numbers closer to equal, and maybe 293 would be the right answer for both sides. Anyone know of the actual data?

10/16/14 7:47 PM

adjust the flange offsets the same amount as the off-centerness and you'll get your delta in spoke length. VOILA!

10/16/14 7:49 PM

I researched this a while back. I relaced an open pro with a A23 and reused the spoikes, with no problem. The answer I got most was a 1 mm diference in spoke length if you are buying spokes, so I assume the non drive side would be 1 mm shorter and driveside 1 MM longer.

10/16/14 7:52 PM

http://www.prowheelbuilder.com/spokelengthcalculator/

Read same on that calc. Campy Centaur rear with A23 or A23-OC 3x32

Left spoke length: 295
Right spoke length: 293

Me, I would use all 294s probably...


I use two online calcs just to make sure I am on track, the other is Walter's fav he sent me to @ http://www.bikeschool.com/tools/spoke-length-calculator.

10/17/14 6:58 PM

I used Roger Munson's calculator (http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/) and it has an "offset" box where you put in the mm of offset. I believe it's the same effect as Walter's "Why didn't I think of that?" suggestion to just change the flange distance.

It tells me 294 for the front wheel, 293 for the NDS and 292 for the DS. I think I'll just buy a box of 293 DT Revolutions and be good for both wheels. That silly millimeter doesn't count for much and that way I can use the spare spokes for both wheels if I need to replace any spokes..

10/17/14 8:09 PM

Have you used revs on the drive side before? How much do you weigh, just curious?

10/18/14 10:48 AM

...you use aluminum nipples. It's important that the threads are at least flush with the end of the nipples; otherwise, you risk nipple failures. It's less critical with brass nipples, but if you're using Rev's, it seems somewhat self-defeating to use heavy nipples.

10/18/14 1:41 PM

I would vote against revs on the drive side. I'd go 14/15 and brass nips there.

10/18/14 4:00 PM

"I'd go 14/15 and brass nips there."

Me too, although with the right 7075 forged/machined alloy nips I have no qualms.

10/19/14 7:05 PM

I currently use wheels with 15/16 DT Competition spokes, 32 hole, 3X. My rear wheel has 54,000 road miles on it, plus several thousand on the rollers. The spokes themselves have 100,000 road miles on them (replaced the rim twice and reused the spokes). I weigh 180 lbs. but I do "ride light."

If I could find a source for the 15/16 spokes I would build with them again but though they are listed in DT's catalog (last I looked) I cannot find anybody who actually sells them. Since the "thin part" of a DT Revolution is pretty close to the thin part of my current spokes I'm having a hard time seeing a problem.

Aluminum nipples will not appear on my workbench.

10/19/14 9:08 PM

...are equivalent to 14/17 gauge spokes. While I prefer to use 14/15 gauge on the drive side, there's no reason that you can't use the lighter spokes. The main reason most people don't is that windup can be hard to avoid when trying to achieve high tension.

I don't understand your stance on alloy nipples. They work great and they're pretty much ubiquitous on both factory and custom wheels.

10/19/14 9:13 PM

Oddly, and no idea how/why. Out of 4 wheels I built in NJ [2000 or 2001] with revos, DS 14/15 and all alloy nips. Including 12 years in swapping Open Pros rim for new A23s using same nip/spokes. I broke one revo spoke 'on the front' of the set with the original Aerohead rims.. FWIW...

10/19/14 9:15 PM

nm

10/19/14 10:07 PM

quote:

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I think I'll just buy a box of 293 DT Revolutions

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10/20/14 11:06 AM

I built a wheel once with Rev's on the driveside and I thought it felt spongy, so I took them out and put in 14/15's.

10/20/14 11:18 AM

"I built a wheel once with Rev's on the driveside and I thought it felt spongy, so I took them out and put in 14/15's."

When I started building wheels I read that enough times I thought I'd adopt the 14/15 DS on all my builds. Probably from you here as I was asking the questions.

I can not say how a revo laced on the DS wheel feels. I can say I have had/ridden and taken off wheelsets with radial NDS three different times and they felt spongy to me.

Actually last set is on my wife's bike. And one Race-X-Lite that which I did not feel this with that is Radial NDS, which has developed cracks in the spoke bed. Leaning me towards thinking spoke tension being higher than on a wheel I would build compensates. But so much tension that a rim cracks possibly?? ;) I know, pushing weight limits being pushed also has a lot to do with that cracked rim.
I did like the way the X-Lites felt and responded.

I had a Speed Dream set made in 1999. 16 spoke DS crossed and 1/2 spoked radial 8 spokes on the NDS. I rode them a few rides and sold them to Nate. This is when I started building wheels, that could get expensive I figured. ;)

10/21/14 5:30 AM

There is no price difference, since they do this will all of the spokes they sell and their prices are the lowest I've found anywhere.

10/21/14 10:01 AM

" that seat post and some TT bars seem like a feasible way to get a good aero position "

You may end up with different lengths of the butted sections to the threaded end with Dans. And Sapims have an obvious butt like Wheelsmiths, no the sooth un-noticeable transitiuon like DTs have.

When I did the Race on the DS and Lasers on the NDS what they had in stock to cut and thread left me with much shorted thicker sections towards the nips on one side than the other. It bothered me for a minute or two. ;)

I do like the $.40 price on the silver Race spoke there. I think the lasers where .80