3/28/14 4:21 PM

Got a 24 hole rear Powertap Wheel inbound with a Stans Alpha 400 rim. 14/15 2x brass nips.

I am not as happy as I could be for my weight with this build, thus the thread and questions.

How much will the larger hub flange help the stiffness of the wheel. Flange dia. 70mm compared to a Shimano of 45mm.

I was thinking of putting heavier spokes on the drive side. What is the strongest, Single butt 14 ga with a 2.3 butt at the J ?? Like Sapim Strong ?

Also, probably a stronger rim, like a 30mm V be a better choice. Velocity Chukker maybe...

I would rather have a 32x wheel. But this one is presenting itself quite reasonably.

Or should I just try to trade it to a weight weenie for a 32x PT wheel maybe. 1st move and see, VS the rebuild plan.

3/28/14 10:48 PM

Rim possibilities include the Kinlin XC-279. wide and 28mm tall. Wish it was a welded seam and if it weighed more that would not be a bad thing.. Did I just type that?

Last edited by Sparky on 3/29/14 2:03 AM; edited 1 time in total

3/28/14 11:53 PM

I reckon the rim will be the limiting factor in reliability, rather than the spokes. I've been building wheels for almost 40 years, and not since the late 1980s have I had a spoke failure, and that was a wheel with some pretty old galvanised spokes, whereas I've had quite a number of rear rims need replacement because of cracking at the spoke holes/eyelets. We have a pair of tandem wheels I built using Sapim CX-Ray spokes, and we've had zero problems with those. In fact, I reckon if you use spokes with a skinny mid-section, such as DT Revolution or Sapim CX-Ray, you're less likely to have problems with the wheel than you are with heavier spokes, as the thinner mid-section of the spokes makes them effectively more elastic, thus reducing the stress on the rim.

I've built a couple of 24h rear wheels. One wheel was built with a Mavic CXP30 rim (no longer in production), and the other with a Velocity Fusion rim. CX-Ray spokes for both, and haven't had any problems with either. The Velocity Fusion is a pretty nice rim in my opinion. I've used it for several pairs of wheels, and they trued up easily, haven't gone out of true in use, and haven't suffered any cracking problems.

If you want a wider rim, then the Velocity A23 or Chukker, as you suggest.

3/29/14 2:01 AM

Velocity A23 24 spoke rear? I don't think I would do it.

3/29/14 8:13 AM

...heavier spokes don't make a more durable wheel. What matters is proper spoke tension and making sure that the spokes are elastic enough to absorb the load cycles they encounter. Paradoxically, the heavier the rider, the more elastic the spokes need to be, due to the increased load and tension variations under load.

I think your idea of using a deeper section rim is a good one for three reasons:

1- The stiffer rim flexes less, reducing the tension variation that the spokes will experience. This reduces spoke fatigue.

2- The stiffer rim permits higher spoke tension, which is critical with a low spoke count wheel. This helps to eliminate a key cause of spoke fatigue.

3- The deeper section improves the spoke bracing angle (as do the larger hub flanges). The wheel will be laterally stiffer.

All of these things will produce a more durable wheel.

On my own wheels, I build the fronts with very light spokes (2.0/1.5mm), either DT Revolutions or Sapim Lasers. With wide and equal bracing angle of front wheels, there is no need for heavier spokes.

On the rear I use the same light spokes on the left side and slightly heavier spokes (2.0/1.8mm) on the right side, either DT Competition or Sapim Race. While this isn't a necessity, the higher tension on the right side permits the use of less elastic spokes, which stiffen the wheel slightly when the rim is pushed toward the non-drive side.

Having recently built a rear wheel with a 16/8 spoke pattern, I have to say I like it. It's too bad that nobody is offering 14/7, 18/9 or 20/10 rims and hubs for the aftermarket. It also brings me back to the days of building asymmetric wheels with Hi-E rims and hubs in the 70's and 80's.

3/29/14 10:59 AM

I agree on the different ga spokes for a rear/dished wheel. I just built some C2 Belgiums I got from Walter. Sapim Lasers NDS and Sapim Race drive side. Front is all Race. I used Brass nips on the Drive side and AL on the NDS on that last set, All AL front.

Previous few sets I used Revo front and NDS and 14/15 drive side. So the Laser/race combo is functionally equiv. It helps I have been getting the Sapim Race spokes for $.40 each with a brass nips and free shipping.

This is how my most used wheels are built. And I just last year pulled the Open Pros in favor of A23s. Easy decision to make when the ERD is the same. As said, that set are my most used wheels, and I only had to replace 2 of the original AL nips. Due to clumsy slip offs with the spoke wrench over the years the few times they needed a tweak.

And 2 ENO sets I did I just used Sapim Race, one set for me and one for trade. No dish on them
and with 32 spokes nice and strong. Mine AL nips, the set that just went out the door brass.

I think where I am with the power tap, unless Cycle Ops suggests otherwise when they return my email... will be the Laser/Race with the Kinlin XC-279 [28mm and 24mm wide] w/Brass nips. I just can't get past the 650 grams for the Chukker.

Just wish the Kinlin was welded seam, but I said that already.

3/31/14 5:39 AM

...but I haven't had any issues with the seams on the other Kinlin rims I've used (XR-270, XR-200, TB-25). I also haven't had any issues with alloy nipples and I built with them pretty much exclusively.

3/31/14 8:00 AM

ridden xr270 and xr300 extensively, they're very solid rims. never really noticed a performance or strength issue with the non-welded seam.

3/31/14 11:24 AM

Have you guys seen a XC-279. Funny, it is C2 shaped but a bit bigger.

Someone locally has a Zipp 303 rim that is Aluminum.
But I think the wider is what I tend towards any more.
And my C2 front is a good functional match, and cosmetic as well.

XC-279 Top C2 bottom

<img src="http://wheelsmfg.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/600x600/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/k/i/kinlin-xc279.dims.600px.jpg" width=432>

<img src="http://fairwheelbikes.com/cycling-blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Hed-Ardennes-150x150.jpg" width=432>

3/31/14 11:34 AM

While looking for the above pics, I just came across the BHS C472w Clincher Rim - 23mm wide - 28mm deep. Also non welded? I don't use the brake much anyway... ;)


Looks like same extrusion. ERD appears to be 1.5mm different if the data I browsed is correct.

<img src="http://cdn3.volusion.com/zuzmr.cyhxj/v/vspfiles/photos/C472w-6.jpg?1376302415" width=420>

3/31/14 4:21 PM

Take a look at thease-http://flocycling.blogspot.se/2012/10/flo-cycling-flo-30-previously-flo.html

I'm intrigued.

3/31/14 7:29 PM

Trying to wrap my head around the angled brake track...

I might be more inclined on a front if only one, or both of course. Appear to be more Aero that quite a few 'Aero' rims.

Pacenti SL23 Rim another choice, but at that price I think I would stick with the Belgium.

4/1/14 9:19 AM

Perhaps the new Velocity Aileron that comes in 25mm width would work better than the A23.

4/1/14 10:33 AM

Velocity Aileron are disc only though...

4/2/14 4:56 AM

...you need a new bike to go with the rims. That sounds like a viable excuse to me!

4/2/14 5:01 AM

Agree with Brian