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The elusive "perfect saddle" -- the hunting proces
 

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

6/16/13 2:54 PM

The elusive "perfect saddle" -- the hunting proces

The last couple years, I started to experience rear end discomfort on ride distances shorter than my "usual" (i.e. butt tired out before legs do)

After some new shorts, and shammy butter, both of which helped a little but not quite got me back to where I was, the next item to experiemet on is saddle...

I know I tend to feel more comfortable on somewhat firm saddle. But not quite know what else to look for, I went for my first try on one having a center cutout. Bingo! It worked in alleivated the "area of pressure" (I mean, discomfort) I've been having, so to speak. Almost home run on the first hit! Well, almost...

That is, on smooth roads. But when the road got a bit rough, I felt every crack and seams on my sit bone and up my spine. :-( No, I didn't suddenly change tire pressure either.

So I got one that works and wants something similar in shape but with a bit more padding or more "give", though hopefully without getting too too soft. The trouble is, I can't really define or measure the "hardness", which makes zeroing in on that next "perfect" one quite difficult. Add to the problem, it's not terribly clear which other saddle(s) within even the same manufacturer have the same shape and width which I want to stick with.

So how do you all NAIL your perfect saddle? Do you you just luck out (like I've been until now)? Go by recomendation? Randomly try different ones till you randomly found one?

Being a lightweight, I don't really put a great deal of pressure on the saddle. That's how I managed to survive quite well without too much attention to saddles so far. I'm hoping the next round of my hunt won't be a long drawn out affair...

EDIT to correct typo. Time to clean my keyboard, it's getting really sticky lately.


Last edited by April on 6/16/13 9:30 PM; edited 1 time in total

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2625
Location: Canberra, Australia

6/16/13 4:07 PM

All I can offer is a recommendation from my wife, who weighs about 52kg and averages around 300km/week on the bike, with some fairly long rides thrown in occasionally (her longest one day ride is 400km). She's standardised on the Selle Italia Lady Gel Flow saddle on all her bikes. This one (but in black): http://www.idmatch.ch/2013/pdf/LADYGelFlow.pdf

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

6/16/13 7:08 PM

nail the position first

I recommend reexamining your preferred position first. For example, do you tend to scoot to the front or back of your current saddle?

Once you've nailed the position, then you can figure out where you sit bones go in relation to the padded bits of the saddle. Then it depends on the width of your hips.

Then also examine if your saddle is flat or not, maybe it makes you slide one way or the other.

Also check the height of your stem, it affects the angle of your sit bones on the saddle.

I prefer a flatter saddle like the Selle Italia Flite SLR...

Sandiway

P.S. I find cutout saddles deceptively comfortable for short rides but painful on long ones.


Last edited by sandiway on 6/17/13 7:04 AM; edited 1 time in total

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Matthew Currie
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 800
Location: Vermont

6/16/13 8:07 PM

slow that keyboard down

CAn't help much on the saddle, being configured a bit differently from April, but must say that I hope her original post of "rare ed" discomfort referred to something like the rear end, as I'm pretty sure "ed" problems would be very rare indeed in her case!

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

6/16/13 9:48 PM

Selle Italia Flow

The one that come close to working but not quite perfectly is a Selle Italia Flow with a cutout, man's model. But on looking at their web site, they have something like 5 different models that have center cutout! And it wasn't clear how different each is from the other!

As for riding position, I'm not too keen to change it. It's been working ok all along. My back and shoulder etc, still feels fine. Only my butt was getting a bit painful from the pressure.

Looking at my current saddles, they range in width from the standard man's saddle to the more "sporty women" model of midium width. I could not decern much difference between them. None of my existing saddles have cutouts. And that's the area I've started to experience discomfort. Hence my first try being one with a cutout. But beyond that, I don't seem to have a preference.

Well, that is until the new one kind of beat me up on rough roads. So I guess I like something slightly more "forgiving" on firmness. (without getting too squishy, that is)


quote:
do you tend to scoot to the front or back of your current saddle?

I actually move back and forth from time to time (maybe every hour or so), depending on whether I'm in the drop or on the hood, climbing vs. descending. So a flat saddle works best for it has the longest "platform" for me to move around.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

6/16/13 9:52 PM

the long and short of it


quote:
P.S. I find cutout saddles deceptively comfortable for short rides but painful on long ones.

Sandiway, my long ride might still be short one for you!

The distance I usually do is only 50-80 mi. Even at my speed, that's at most 5-6 hr in the saddle, plus long breaks (5-15 min) every 20-30 mile. Basically, that's how far my legs can manage. So I've never had any strong need for "fine tuning" my saddle in the past.

I think the reason for my current issue might be coming from my saddles had been nearing 10 years (came with bike) and might be showing their age. Neither of them are in production any more so no sense trying to locate duplicates.

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

6/16/13 10:12 PM

saddles wear out

Saddles do wear out, especially if they have been out in the rain.

One rain ride can ruin the padding of a saddle.

Sometimes the answer is simply to buy the same saddle again.
New is better...

Sandiway

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

6/17/13 5:24 AM

Same saddle, different brand name

Saddles are made by a few large companies that often do private label models for other brands, so it's possible that your old saddle is still available with a different label. Also, Ebay is a great source for older saddle models and you can often find them in new or near-new condition.

What exactly are you riding now?

Also, if your current saddle is in decent condition, it's not difficult to peel back the cover and remove some of the padding from the center, then glue the cover back. That may be enough to relieve the pressure issues you're having.

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

6/17/13 7:05 AM


quote:
Ebay is a great source for older saddle models and you can often find them in new or near-new condition.


Also, some bike shops hoard NOS stuff. Ask Pete Hausner for leads....

Sandiway

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

6/17/13 7:51 AM


quote:
if your current saddle is in decent condition, it's not difficult to peel back the cover and remove some of the padding from the center, then glue the cover back. That may be enough to relieve the pressure issues you're having.

Although outwardly there's no sign of wear, I suspect the area the sit bones sat had compressed enough the center area (no cutout) is now too high in comparison. Hence the pressure in that area.

For as long as I can remember (quite long now), it's been a bit on the soft side. I noticed it when I'm on the other bike which has a slightly firmer saddle, I like that better anyway. So I'm not heart broken to have to change model.

This one is a women's model so it's a bit wider than my other saddle. Surprisingly, both seems to be similar in conforming to my sit bone.

My second saddle, on close inspection, has seams near where my sit bones are! How I riden it for so long without issue is a bit beyond me. Maybe I didn't exactly sit on the seam after all.

Since I had pretty good luck on 2 different saddle, I'm guessing I'm not terribly sensitive to saddle shape. As long as it's flat and midium firm, it should do.

Still, if I do multiple days of riding, eventually my butt do start to complain mildly. So I thought while I'm on the hunt for a new one anyway, I'd experiement a bit and maybe find out that's even more comfortable than those I've had before. Just don't want to spend a fortune and the entire summer on saddle hunt though.

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

6/17/13 7:56 AM


quote:
Just don't want to spend a fortune and the entire summer on saddle hunt though.


Some bike shops are friendly and they will lend you saddles to try.

Sandiway

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

6/17/13 10:04 AM


quote:
Some bike shops are friendly and they will lend you saddles to try.

I know. But I would still need to actually RIDE the saddle for some distance (more than around the block) to know for sure.

The first one I tried was ok to sit on, and was ok on a 20 miler on smooth roads. It wasn't until I got on some extended distance of rough pavement that I started to wish for some cushioning...

Even though it wouldn't cost me any money with a "loan", it'll still take time. I want to expedite THAT part as well, by finding another saddle with the same shape but a bit more cushioning rather than yet another completely different saddle.

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Brian Kelly
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 653
Location: Gig Harbor, WA

6/17/13 10:21 AM

demo saddles

What Sandiway was suggesting, is some manufacturers actually have demo models that shops can loan out for customers to test. I know WTB does this (one of our local shops has a display of them) and I think fizik does this as well. I wouldn't be surprised if Specialized dealers offer this as well, seeing as they have put a lot of work into their saddle designs.

Even if they don't have one of these brands, they may have "loaners" that they can let you try for a few rides.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

6/17/13 11:42 AM

Some shops around me do have a 30 day saddle loaner policy.

It's just I have a couple of longer rides coming up (70-80mi) and I'm trying to see if I could at least have some assurance my next "test" saddle will work no worse than my current 1st try. This one works reasonably good so far on smooth pavement, and next weekend's ride will be mostly on baby bottom smooth pavements (Berkshires). Unless I could find something closely resembles my current test saddle, I'd do better just using this one for that ride.

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Rickk
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 528
Location: Montreal

6/18/13 6:10 PM

Anything "Flow" from Selle Italia: Ouch

Cutout saddles just don't cut it - for me anyways.
The theory (or marketing) behind it perhaps makes sense but in practice the transition ledge between the space and the saddle body can inevitably cause high pressure point or bruised/chaffed skin for certain riders.
Maybe it also depends on one's distance from their ischium (sit bone) to their perineum and, whether they are meaty or, rather thinnish in the perineal region, and the exact shape of the cut-out, or sharp ledge drop-off vs a smoother slope of cut-out transition etc.

Whatever, for me No-Flow, (no cut-out) is more comfortable.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

6/18/13 8:30 PM

"hole"

Some of my saddles already have a center recess. Not that different from a cutout. At first, I was skeptical. But the result were not bad. I don't have any problem with the edge of the recess.

And with my first one with a cut out, I didn't have problem with the edge either. In fact, I'm beginning to like the cutout already. Today was a bit muggy. I was dripping sweat all over in my short 10 mile lunch ride. I definitely felt a lot less damp "down there" with the cutout saddle!

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Rickk
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 528
Location: Montreal

6/19/13 6:14 AM

1. Recessed doesnt = cutout

2. As you explained, perhaps "ymmv" holds especially true re. certain saddle's cutouts, vs none.
:-)

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

6/19/13 8:50 AM

Leatha

I have ridden centuries on Flites and on Brookses and these days my preference for long rides is a hard leather saddle (Velo Orange Model 1) that has no padding, but feels great after seven or eight hours.

Sitting in an office chair or a car for more than a few hours causes significant pain in my right hip (the one that was upgraded last year). But the saddle, because it supports the pelvis rather than butt, is so comfortable I'm thinking about hacking one into a chair for my office (only joking a little). I figure a piano stool and the appropriate seat clamp and I'd be set.

I have heard good things about the "cut out" leather saddles like Selle An-atomica (?I think?) from multiple sources, though I can't help but suspect that cutting a hole in a hard leather saddle is going to weaken the support it offers.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

6/19/13 9:00 AM

" I figure a piano stool and the appropriate seat clamp and I'd be set. "


Look into a high end drummers Throne, I am quite serious. A lot of them have a nose, thus yo can sit forward, pivot your hips forward for periods, etc.


Dentists chairs also good for this as they have to lean over/forward while using for the task.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

6/19/13 9:14 AM

Thrones

Interesting. They look a lot like bicycle saddles! I wonder how the padding would work? But I suppose they'd be easier to set up with a B17 than a piano stool would be...

Hmmmmm.

I might seriously do this. I'd need a B17 for web browsing and a Swallow of Swift for times I need to write quickly...

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

6/19/13 9:17 AM

grab a used one on craigslist with a trashed top and cobble away. ;)

Post pics!

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

6/19/13 9:37 AM

I may do that...

nm

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

6/19/13 4:34 PM

My recommendation

This is one of the few areas of cycling (or of life) where I don't have problems (I've used plain Flites forever, before that Rolls, also have a Brooks and a Berthoud, it's all good, in a blind test I probably couldn't even tell you which one I was on).

But after leafing through a Colorado Cyclist catalog, I don't see how you could go wrong with a Douglas Booty Luv II.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

6/19/13 5:06 PM

FWIW, I have modified several saddles by removing a section of the plastic shell under the covering. Like an oval or kite/diamond shape. No need to cut the covering as it presses into the opening easily. My two fav saddles are as such. Ti railed reasonable weight around 1/2 lb.

The lower my bars are the more I find this works. Due to my hips being rotated forward more I would say.

My brief bar raise to open up the angle of my leg/hip so I could ride when the femoral nerve tat was most symptomatic made for my favs not to be my favs. Back to them thankfully, bars lowered etc.

"Douglas Booty Luv II"

I saw that title in the adult section of the video store I think...

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mag7
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 888
Location: Lake James, NC

6/19/13 7:48 PM

Just mounted a Giles Berthoud Aravis - natural (the cork was too "corky" for my taste) and it is the most rock hard saddle I have ever experienced....and my sit bones couldn't be happier.
Reminds me of my old Selle San Marco Rolls saddle but I think this one is harder.
It's pricey, but the quality of the leather and overall construction has me impressed.
Bought mine from Boulder Bicycle where they offer a 6 months return policy.

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