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Cassette compatibility
 

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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1640

4/30/13 9:16 AM

Cassette compatibility

Hi There,

I have been using SRAM cassettes on my wheels for a long time, always thought that the Shimano and SRAM cassettes were interchangeable.
I just picked up a pair of Shimano wheels and the SRAM cassette won't fit on the hub body.
Is this normal?.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

4/30/13 9:25 AM

There's ONE gotcha that I know of:

Are they DA hubs? ISTRC that there was one generation of DA10 (right at the beginning) that used an alloy body (?) that would not accept anything but special 10-speed DA cassettes. You may have that.

EDIT: I was mostly correct Here's the word from Sheldon Brown, quoted at some length:

2004 Dura-Ace (10-speed) 7800-series Freehubs were completely redesigned too. The Freehub body was attached to the axle, rather than to the shell, to save weight and to have the pawls act at a larger radius.

Also in an effort to save weight, the 2004 Dura-Ace Freehub body is aluminum.

Off Brand Aluminum Body Other manufacturers have used aluminum Freehub bodies, and it has been a problem because the steel sprockets can cut notches into the splines of such a soft material.

...

To avoid this problem, Shimano has made the first change in its spline pattern since the introduction of Hyperglide in the late '80s. Dura-Ace 7800 10-speed freehubs have taller splines than other Shimano models.

As a result, it is not possible to install cassettes other than 10-speed models on Dura-Ace 7800 hubs. It is not, however necessary to use Dura-Ace 10 speed cassettes. The Ultegra 10 speed cassettes also accommodate the taller splines of the 7800 hubs.

The interchangeability issue only applies to that particular hub design. The 10-speed cassettes will fit on any Shimano 8- or 9-speed Freehub with no problems.

The Ultegra 10-speed group introduced for the 2005 model year has no such limit for the standard hubs, but there is one Ultegra complete wheelset that shares this limitation."

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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1640

4/30/13 9:57 AM

They are indeed DA.
They are 7801 wheels (a complete wheelset).
So does this mean that I can only use DA or Ultegra hub? hmm kind of a bummer.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17308
Location: Portland, OR

4/30/13 10:02 AM

My experience: 7801-SL wheels will only take a Shinamo 10 speed cassette. 8/9 speed cogs don't fit, Which is the first Shimano wheel I have ever had that happened with. Also, i believe you are supposed to skip using the thin steel spacer that comes with Shimano 10s cassettes. All my other wheels with 10s cassette are 9 speed Hubs, 600,6500,7700 and some Bontrager, Reynolds, Easton where I use the thin washer on all.

The spines are notably taller on the 7801 wheel cassette body.

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

4/30/13 10:06 AM

Andy's EDIT is correct. I'll add that 105 10-speed cassettes will also fit those 10-speed only hubs and the corresponding Dura Ace and Ultegra wheel sets.

Most of us consider those 7800 hubs a retrogressive design since it went back to the inboard drive-side hub bearing beloved of freewheel axle breakers everywhere. These Shimano hubs (and Campy's similar design) did not break axles routinely since they used oversized ones of better material but the concept is certainly a step back.

Shimano quickly corrected this with the 7850 and later hubs by returning to Ti or steel freehub shells and the former shorter spline pattern.

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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1640

4/30/13 10:10 AM

I am running 10 speed but wanted to run SRAM since they make a 12/28 and Shimano doesn't.
Also I just called Shimano and the guy told me that it will only fit DA cassettes, which are out of my price range.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17308
Location: Portland, OR

4/30/13 10:12 AM

I'll add that 105 10-speed


I am pretty sure all 56&5700, 66&6700, 7700-7900 cassettes.

And it begs the question; are all current modern after market wheels still 8-10s compatable. All the wheels I have are, but none are very recent.

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2602
Location: hillbilly heaven

4/30/13 12:29 PM

What happens with Shimano 11 speed? Will 11 hubs be backwards compatible to 8 9 10? I'm pretty sure the 11 cassettes won't work on the 8 9 10 hubs. ??

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17308
Location: Portland, OR

4/30/13 12:32 PM

"What happens with Shimano 11 speed?"


Let you know in 5-6 years. i just got to 10 speed last year. ;)

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

4/30/13 5:28 PM

Yes and no


quote:
What happens with Shimano 11 speed? Will 11 hubs be backwards compatible to 8 9 10? I'm pretty sure the 11 cassettes won't work on the 8 9 10 hubs. ??

Yes, Shimano's 11-speed freehub bodies will accept 8,9 and 10-speed cassettes with a spacer. It's sort of like using a 7-speed cassettes on an 8/9/10-speed body.

No, an 11-speed cassette will not fit on an 8/9/10-speed freehub body as it's too wide.

Note to henoch: I don't know why the Shimano guy said that. Any 105, Ultegra or Dura Ace 10-speed Shimano (NOT SRAM) cassette will fit those 7800 wheels.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17308
Location: Portland, OR

4/30/13 7:56 PM

105, Ultegra & Dura Ace 10-speed Shimano (NOT SRAM) cassette HAVE all been on my 7801-SL wheels.
To be redundant. ;)

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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1640

4/30/13 8:30 PM

Are you sure, I was told by Shimnao that only a Dura Ace cassette will fit.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17308
Location: Portland, OR

4/30/13 9:29 PM

There is a Ultegra 11-28 on there right now...

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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1640

4/30/13 9:32 PM

Ok thanks.
Strange the Shimano told me only DA.

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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1640

5/2/13 7:31 AM

So another question, now that we have figured out that I can use Ultegra/105, does anyone know if an 11/28 will fit?.

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3635
Location: Brooklyn, NY

5/2/13 8:00 AM

See posting two above yours.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17308
Location: Portland, OR

5/2/13 9:34 AM

Without the washer when on the 7801 wheels

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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1640

5/2/13 2:37 PM

Right on....

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